#8 | Jill Gould: Relationship, Curiosity & the Meat Industry + Sweet Rolls
On this episode, we talk to Jill Gould of the Butter Meat Co. about being in relationship to our food. Relationship to our food is not just about knowing where it came from, but also the relationships we build around food, how food is intertwined in our relationships (like family recipes), and how it is connected to our relationship with the earth & world around us. As the owner of Butter Meat Co., a business selling dual-purpose beef, Jill is an expert on the cattle industry and takes us through the winding road of the cattle industry. Along the way, we hear her story of growing up in a farming community, her early exposure to cultural food perspectives leading to her first discovery of using a dairy cow for meat which led to her successful business today. We dive deep under the soil to talk about the environmental impacts of the meat/dairy industry (both good and harmful) in terms of soil health, carbon sequestering and climate change.
Jill gives us a sweet glimpse of her relationship with her Grammie and the powerful mentorship of this matrilineal elder in her family. She tells a sweet story about Grammie along with Grammie’s sweet rolls and we learn how this woman’s influence gives Jill the strength to be a woman with a powerful voice in the usually male-dominated meat business.
The Recipe starts at: 52:52
Resources mentioned in this episode:
The Butter Meat Co. Social Media Link: Instagram
The Good Meat Camp for Women
Become a member of the Women In Food Community at: WomenInFood.Net/Community
Missy’s Farm Website: CrownHillFarm.com
Missy’s Business Coaching Website: SpiritBizPeople.com
Grammi’s Sweet Rolls
Ingredients:
3/4 cup milk
1/2 cup sugar
1 1/4 tsp salt
1/2 cup butter or oil
4 cups flour
1/3 cup warm water
2 pkg active dry yeast
2 eggs
Instructions:
1. Put warm water in a bowl and add the yeast. Stir.
2. Warm the milk with the butter in the microwave or stovetop (not too warm-like) enough for the butter to melt.
3. Stir the sugar and salt into the warm milk.
4. Add the eggs and 4 cups of flour
5. Attach to mixer and dough hook, use speed 2 & mix for 3 minutes (or mix in bowl vigorously with a spoon) Add more flour until the dough sticks to the dough hook & cleans the sides of the bowl (about 5 minutes)
6. Knead on speed 2 for 7-10 minutes longer or until the dough is smooth & elastic
7. Place dough in a greased bowl, turning to grease the top. Cover & let rise in a warm place free from draft until doubled in bulk (about 1 hour)
8. Press the dough down and shape into rolls. Let shaped rolls rise for 40 minutes.
9. Bake at 350 for 20 minutes.
In our commitment accessibility, we’d love to offer polished show notes to help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. However, Women in Food is still a startup with limited resources. So we’re not there yet.
What we can offer are these very imperfect show notes via the Scribie service. The transcription is far from perfect. But hopefully it’s close enough - even with the errors - to give those who aren’t able or inclined to learn from audio interviews a way to participate.
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0:00:06.0 S1: Welcome to another episode of women in food. I'm your hostess, Missy Singer DuMars. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things food, business, and the feminine. Each episode, I invite you to sit down with me and my interview guest as we dive into this intersection to spark your food curiosity, share their favorite recipe, and give you some fun food explorations along the way. I am inspired by these women, women farmers, shafts bakers, cooks, food business owners, writers and food makers who all bring their passion for beauty, nourishment, community, pleasure connection and deep care to others through food. These are women who advocate and take action towards increased food awareness for themselves, their families and their neighborhoods. Before I introduce today's guest and our topic, I have one request, if you could please go over to iTunes or whatever app that you're using to listen and give us a rating and review. It's a simple act. That helps us a ton. Thank you so much. Today, I am so excited to introduce to you my friend and food business colleague, Jill gold. Jen grew up on her family's farm in Western New York, where they grew vegetables and had a small dairy, she studied agricultural sciences at Cornell University, and then went on to a career in produce sourcing and supply chains for a number of large food companies.
0:01:39.4 S1: Eventually, she came to realize that there was great value in dual purpose beef for flavor, the environment, nutrition and the lives of the animals, and you're gonna hear that story in detail in just a minute, but from that vision, she built her brand and business, but our meat company to sell beef direct to customers in a retail shop as well as shipped nationwide. What I love about Jill is that she allows her curiosity to lead and is committed to educating others about the meat and dairy industries, she's doing something super unique and incredible was recognition from Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg USA Today, Food and Wine and More. I am so excited for this conversation and for the family recipe that she's gonna share with us all, Jill, welcome to women in food, I am so honored and so pleased to have you join us today.
0:02:37.5 S2: Hey, thank you rise. I'm so pumped after your manifesto introduction that I just love 0:02:42.9 S1: Listening to. Thank you. Thank you, and I like to share with our listeners. We first met with the original series last year, and since then, we know that we need to schedule two or three hours if we're gonna get on the phone together, because we can just get out and talk about food and life and business forever, and I feel like we have that connection from the very first time I met you on the street in front of a coffee shop... Yeah.
0:03:10.8 S2: I was just thinking about that. Down in Elmwood village in Buffalo.
0:03:14.0 S1: Yeah, yeah, and you're... Me is so amazing. Why don't you start with telling us, in my introduction, I said that you provide dual purpose, be... What the heck does that even mean for our listeners...
0:03:27.2 S2: Yeah, I guess one of the things I've been talking about lately, the easy way to kind of think about it, it's like two for one, so from the same animal, you're getting two purposes, and that's where you're gonna get dual purpose. So in the case of the beef were taking dairy animals that have a long milking life, they live like three times the age of your regular beef Co, and then they're kind of celebrated his beef, so you get two for one from the same animal in terms of the dual purpose
mindset, and traditionally, we've always kind of thought about dual purpose having specific breeds, like people say, Oh, is a whole STEAM, which is a type of cow that's your black and white cow, you kinda think of characteristically as a cow is not a dual purpose breed and thinking differently that we are eating that beef, and there's two purposes for all these animals, but there's a long list of other amazing products they make, so just thinking about things more robustly than Jeff, they make milk or they make beef and they make both, and they also make tallow and a whole of their list of products, so...
0:04:24.9 S1: Yeah, and you know, my listeners who might know a little bit about me now that I haven't... I didn't grow up around our culture like you did, I've only had my farm four and a half years, and I remember as I was learning about chickens and birds, learning about dual purpose, which in the case of poultry is eggs and meat. And to me, it seems like a return to agricultural roots, and to think about dualpurpose animals, livestock, because family farms, it was like you had to provide everything for yourself and to have dual purpose animals that can have a long life and provide more than just one thing, I was part of the frugality and efficiency of a family homestead, right?
0:05:16.8 S2: Yeah, absolutely, I was... I think today it's taking a modern look at that efficiency of sorts, and what does that look like, 'cause that is traditionally the meat and eggs and beef that we always consumed was something that I had more than one purpose of the idea of a single purpose, almost like siloed as agriculture and animals is kind of where we've gone, and I think you're seeing... The pendulum starts to swing a hope watermelons. Part of it 'cause when you just start looking at what's the overall kind of efficiency of the relationship of that animal to the environment and human health and kind of that full cycle is what I get excited about.
0:05:56.6 S1: Yeah, I'm gonna point out something that you haven't heard me say before, but just before we started this podcast, we were chatting for a few minutes and you were sharing a little bit more about your childhood family farm, and you talked about how they were... Your family were vegetable growers and then they started to have some dairy cows for a particular purpose. You wanna share with our audience what that was...
0:06:22.6 S2: Yeah, to grow vegetables, you need a lot of nutrients, nitrogen is a big one, and the best and most natural source of nitrogen is other animals, feces are proven in this case, manure from cows and... Yeah, so my family acquired a dairy farm because it kinda completes that nutrient cycle that you need, and I think that really left... It's how I think about things a lot because otherwise you're just applying it Jurgen from an artificial source or you were getting manure from other dairy farms, but you know, dairy farms make milk and they also make a lot of Manor, but that Manus a very valuable resource. So how do you capture that and use that and...
0:07:05.3 S1: So another purpose besides for me and very... Yeah, calls can provide me dairy and vegetables. They do. You're gonna start calling it triple, triple purpose met. I
0:07:20.6 S2: Know, I do. I wanna call it full cycle. Be 0:07:25.9 S1: Full cycle. Be for something. Yeah, yeah, and I think about that too. I think even for
our listeners at home, if you're really gonna take a dive into whether you live in a city or on a farm like Jill and I do, if you're gonna take a dive into sustainability and what it means to live a more sustainable lifestyle, one of the things is to look at the inputs and the outputs and how much can you keep that within your own household or ecosystem, and so what I was talking about with getting dairy cows, which adds a food product to the family into the farm, and that reduces the outside inputs that need to come into the farm by having selfproduced compost, essentially, so you can look at that in your own home and where do I bring things outside? And is there a way that I can generate that from within my little home ecosystem, and it doesn't have to even be foodrelated, and you can also think about, what things do I get rid of? What is usually thought of as trash? Or What can I do with that? Like I have all these bags in my freezer of onion skins and avocado pits because I use it to die as a law from my sheep, and I say bones or the carcass of a chicken in the freezer and then I make soup out of that.
0:08:51.0 S1: It's like there's so many things you can take what is perceived as less than or trash and use it for something else, that's actually really valuable. Right.
0:09:04.4 S2: Yeah, totally. I'm kinda jumping up and down in my chair 'cause... Yeah, it is, and that's kind of... You can do that on a small scale, it's so micro, but it's also so macro, and that was kind of the opportunity I saw with the dairy cows in New York State in particular, was there's half a million leaving the dairy system a year, and I was like, That's a lot of animals. And there's a business there, and I differentiate...
0:09:33.2 S1: There's a difference. She did talk about it necessarily, 'cause I don't think we wanna know really, but where do they go? Well.
0:09:39.5 S2: I was like, How do I keep that in our nutrient cycle, like feeding people in our community, it was like, How do I look at that larger cycle and that was... It's all cycles. Maybe I need to stop talking about cycles, but...
0:09:55.2 S1: Yeah, yeah, well, and that brings me to how you kinda came up with the idea, 'cause I know you have a particular story about the inception of butter meat that is really related because I'll let you tell the whole story, but part of it is that this thing that you thought was sort of not quite ways, but not for the public consumption, ends up being a really desirable and sought after product.
0:10:23.3 S2: Yeah, I mean, I think we talked about... I wanted to go even further back in my inception story about her, MICO, and it really goes... When I first met my best friend Caitlin, in high school, I was in a program where I went to wash in DC for a semester, and I was one of 60 kids from across the country, and it sounds really cliche, but we were this smattering of America in a sense. I was the token farmer, there was a daughter of a billionaire, there was a woman that came from not... We were just just smattering of America for my diversity, socioeconomic, what people's families did, and it was such an incredible experience as like a 16yearold. And leaving that program, I met my best friend Caitlin, who is half Chinese, half IrishAmerican. And we were first become friends, we didn't really like each other, we were across the hall from each other, and we were very... She thought I was this girl from Buffalo, boring to her. And I kinda was like, Oh, she's different. She was into different things, very fashionable, and... Anyways, I talked about Caitlyn because the first time I started eating with her family or her mom prepared a meal, which was his Malaysian Chinese meal that I had never experienced the flavors or even knew how to cook, and through the years we were...
0:11:54.7 S2: I was always visiting and cooking, or the first time I really went to China Town in New York City was with her uncle Peter and eating chicken feet and going to get demon, and so I was having a wasted BLE, very different food experiences where I kinda like over the years, which was over a decade, they were kind of my... Always expanding my pallet of sorts and from a food and cultural and cooking and things that... Like growing up in kind of a traditional American household with mash potatoes and BFinch and green being Castrol was just a very different food experience and... Sorry, this just made me remember a story that relates to this, so don't apologize. Tell us a story. I... And my listeners love a good story, I worked in Miami in global food sourcing, and I hate to say is, Well, it's like the ten white American girl on the team, 'cause I had to Dominic in a Cuban, everyone's look Spanish, our meetings would go into Spanglish and we did a World Food Day of sorts and everyone... We did a pot luck when everyone really wanted me to bring green being cast
0:13:03.3 S1: Role, and 0:13:05.1 S2: It was just so fun to kinda be like, This is my food culture, which I never really owned in a sense or understood really, because I've never been in the minority where they were like plantings and things I couldn't even say In Flavors I'd never experienced before, so I think in my 20s, I had a lot of those kind of food where was I questioning what I thought was a normal... Not normal, but what I grew up eating, I think is what I'm trying to say. And so, Yeah, Caitlin and her family, which is like a big influence, and they were this food authority and cultural and always expanding my horizons in a sense, and her brother Ewa was in town kind of unexpectedly and showed up at our... How's like, Hey, we crash here. We're like, Yeah. And I was like, I have nothing that you was gonna be excited to cook because he's a knowledgeable chef and just into food, and she pity pulled out the stakes from our farm that were from mature dairy cows, kind of like embarrassed... Literally embarrassed to present this to you at a cook, and I was like, He's gonna wanna go to Wegmans or he's gonna be like, Why don't you have...
0:14:18.6 S2: I don't know, I just thought he was gonna be really disappointed with what I had, and he immediately jumped up and was like, This is incredible, I'm cooking dinner, sit down, This is what beef is supposed to be, and he cooked our food, which is kind of the crazy thing in a way that we had never appreciated before, and it was just... You tasted it and you were like, Oh my gosh, of course, this is something we should be doing. Literally a couple of weeks after that, we got our first cows slaughtered and we're often running trying to try to sell be from our mature dairy cows.
0:14:58.3 S1: Yeah, 'cause our listeners may not know as much about farm life cycle or dairy, so usually a dairy cow provides milk for how long... So
0:15:14.1 S2: I guess the quick answer a minutes by farm should be my disclaimer of sorts, you get a minimum of two lactation out of that cow that's... So it takes about two years to raise one from a calf, and then they basically then have two more caves or two lactation cycles, so they are getting into four or five years old, six... We try to have three lactation per cow, and when you talk about how many... How long do they live? It's really a reflection of that overall animal's health, like their body condition, some do thrive a lot longer, so you kinda get at a minimum of... A farm might have a cow for three to four years on the long range, per dairy production animal, you're looking at nine years, and that is kind of where... We don't really have a lot of younger animals, we tend to stay around that sixyear range, we've done a nineyearold cow for ours, right.
0:16:15.1 S1: And so on a traditional small family farm, when that cows, no lner providing milk, it becomes me for the household and the family. Right.
0:16:24.5 S2: Yeah. And so, I guess in our case on our farm, we still were eating an occasional... You only really need one a year, and in Western New York, most dairy farms and sell their mature dairy cows or Coco is the industry term. I don't really like to use it, or I don't use it usually, but trying to educate in general, the terminology from the dairy side, they go to the animal lives to the livestock auction and sold and actually are primarily ending up as beef that we consume. We just don't know what we are eating. A mature dairy cows, you can't send a down or sit cows aren't getting marketed through the life suck actions, but they are going to a livestock auction and ended up ending up as finished beef product, and it can create his choice beef. So you just don't really know when you're eating it, but when you start looking at the value proposition is a fundamentally different beef product. Right, but so most people who are buying a steak or ground or whatever at the grocery store though, they're probably getting an Angus or beef cattle that has a totally different life than that...
0:17:32.5 S2: Yeah, about 20% of before the United States comes from dairy breeds, and of that 20%, mature dairy animals or Cocos are 8 to 9% depending on the year. So you're in left all amount... Yeah, a small amount, but it's still significant to think that 20% is coming from dairy farms in some sort already, which most people don't expect or they're surprised that dairy farms are contributing that much beef already, especially in the Northeast. That is the choice. Beef, it's coming from dairy farms.
0:18:08.1 S1: Right. So cattle that are raised for me though, they're living like one year or two years at the most... Right, yeah.
0:18:18.4 S2: 14 months is about 14 to 30 months to your older, traditional single purpose, and the reason I will say the 30 months is a cut off with the USDA for grading and you manage... It's called prions or SMS or ultras, known as mad cow disease, under 30 months of age, the spinal column is not removed, and that's kind of what drives the whole singlepurpose industry, 'cause that's how you get a Tbone or a porter house, 'cause that T is actually, the spinal column, and this is kind of a global thing, different countries in Europe in particular, there was a lot of... There was a Tbone Porter House funeral in Italy when they changed their slaughter protocols do not include to manage for BC and the Prion, so anything over 30 months of age, they are being processed differently, and so our cars are processed differently and that under 30 months drives the single purpose. And
0:19:21.5 S1: So the under 30 months is, I guess it's a faster or less expensive processing process... That's why they do it.
0:19:30.4 S2: Partially, there is a feed conversion part to that too, like they're able to put on weight
and...
0:19:35.1 S1: Yeah, I know that feed conversion. And I wanna recognize that this is maybe a slightly graphic conversation for having... For so, yeah, I don't know if I didn't need to go that Yahya. I think it's... And this is part of our conversation, right, let's be in relationship with our food, like let's be real about what actually happens, and I think that's super important. I raised meat chickens one year, so all my poetry are egg layers, so they live long, happy lives and they have names and they don't get slaughter or anything, but one year I thought If I'm gonna eat me, I wanna raise some myself and be part of the whole process to be in relationship with my food on my land, and so I raised meat, birds, and that whole food conversion thing I learned because I'm committed to heritage breed animals here, and for our listeners, a heritage breed chicken, like buff orpington or a bare rock or any of those, they're slower growing, which means that if you're gonna eat them for me, they're gonna live many more weeks, which means you're feeding them that many more weeks and that many more pounds of food, which makes a more expensive me...
0:20:53.4 S1: If I was gonna sell it, and I not only did do here really slow grow, growing heritage breeds that most people don't raise for me, but our old school traditional, they were originally developed as meat birds a century ago or two centuries ago, and they grew for 28 weeks, I was feeding them before we butchered them and we probably could let them go to 32 'cause they were still on the small side, whereas your modern chickens, even the most organic grassfed chicken is going to be a modern breed that is bred to grow fast they are like eight to 12 weeks, and so just for the listeners to know, that's what... Part of what makes the quality and more unique food expensive is that it costs more to freeze that animal and care for it. Well, you know.
0:21:48.5 S2: Yeah, we don't have to go into all the details about the slaughter age, sometimes I always wanna not feel disingenuous to what actually happens and what the product and what we do so well.
0:22:00.2 S1: So speaking of relationship to your food, recently, any of us who follow you on social media and particularly on Instagram, you have been doing an intense education for all of us, as you call it, the rabbit hole of helping us really be in relationship to our food by investigating where it comes from, and you started with some meat balls you saw and where Walmart or somewhere, Wegmans Wegmans, which in this region is an original grocery store chain, tell us a little more about that because it ended up being like... This is a prime example of how your curiosity led somewhere really interesting, I loved following this whole journey, and I know a lot about food and where it comes from, but it also what it does is it's reminding us all about what relationship we do or don't have with our food and where it comes from.
0:22:56.8 S2: It's been fun, and I'm learning a whole new piece of social media, diving into this rabbit hole of communicating some of the content, but I was in white man's and I used to work in retail and sourcing for retail, and in that role, a lot of our job was also just going into other retailers and looking at new products, figuring out who was doing it and what they were doing, and that was kind of... That skill set, I learned, I guess, in retail. And I walked up to the meat case there and they had this brand new certified organic product, like Wellfeatured, fancy branding, a million claims on the package, and I was like I say, I was like, this is fishy. This isn't some new boutique butter me comeat balls here. And yeah, I just... So yeah, kind of diving into that, I think educating customers
on how to trace back with in the United States, we have USDA plant codes, who's the LLC that's owning the product on that packaging, and in that example, this product was kind of a pyramid of companies.
0:24:04.3 S1: Right and for our listeners, the product with some frozen meat balls... Yeah, that had all kinds of... If you looked at the packaging, and you can probably find it on Jill's social media, and I'll put links in the show notes to this episode. But if you look at the packaging, it look like it came from some relatively small to mediumsized family farm and really local and mindful and organic and all that stuff, right.
0:24:33.7 S2: Yeah, I wanted to buy it. I was like, Oh, this looks cool. Yeah, and then you discovered it was owned and backed essentially by JBS, which is the largest bee company in the world.
0:24:47.8 S1: Wow. Yeah, not only that, the actual animal... Where did it start? Australia, yeah, it was a... Right. And so that brings us to... Now, there are different regions in the world that are known for different products as the prime regions, like I know Australia is really known for its lamb, but that also brings back to one of the things that I mentioned in introducing you, is that the dual purpose beef brings value, there's environmental impact, nutritional part, nutritional impact, Animal, Humane animal impact, flavor, etcetera, but even the fact that these meatballs and Wegmans in Western New York started in Australia has a strong environmental impact. Right.
0:25:40.8 S2: Yeah, and I think the other part of that that I was starting to dive into in my rabbit hole and I need to pick it back up, is that at the end of the day, the Outback in Australia is nonarable land, and it is actually a very efficient place to raise cattle, but that cattle, there has no opportunity to really have any carbon sequestration or regenerative type practices versus a dual purpose wellmanaged livestock in general, in a place like Western New York or in that band of latitude in the world, which has highly arable soils and water and some of the best soil in the world has the ability to actually be regenerative and have carbon Quest ration, and that changes the value proposition of the products we produce here because that is a different type of efficiency in a sense, and so you can't really compare Australian organic beef to a western New York dualpurpose certified organic beef product or any food product produced in a place like Western New York, and I kinda wanna get to it, my stories talking about, there really are regionspecific solutions to look into the future of agriculture and food and human health and those things, and Australian meatballs and eat Western New York is concerning to me because I think we can do better in our own backyards with those half a million dairy cows and create a better product.
0:27:07.5 S2: But I 0:27:07.9 S1: Never mind the shipping to... Yeah, that's the thing to that and the amount of carbon footprint, etcetera. So not only is it less Carmen smart to raise conon, the nonarable lands far away, but also then adds the problem by having to ship it so far.
0:27:30.4 S2: Yeah, but I was... I guess I was trying to say that they are very efficient at raising beef protein there and they're gonna keep doing it, and it is better to do it there, then say the
Brazilian, whether deforested to raise cattle. The Australian Outback is way better and they're gonna keep raising a lot there, so it's just how do these different solutions come together and seeing that meet all on my local retailer shelf is more like... Well, I want that I can do that.
0:27:58.6 S1: Right, right. And even within the United States, it's interesting, man, to me, you and I have talked about different areas for cattle, because I think of the Midwest, even all the way out to California as ranch land and Canaan, which I guess a lot of that is probably what you would call less arable or nonarable land, and then... So it seems like traditionally, or in the past, dairy cattle are on more arable land 'cause they need the nutrients.
0:28:28.6 S2: They need the nutrients, grass and they need corn or soy bean, which is coming from arable lands. Yeah, so you've gotta be very efficient, you're almost held to the highest, highest standard from a global perspective when you're on arable land because you're using the best land, so how are you converting that in that cycle? And so, Yeah, dairy exists in very arable high water, great soils areas for the most part, and in areas where it's less sustainable for, it's typically where they're adding additional water, it's coming from an aquifer or it's not from their natural ecosystem or... Corn is being brought in from across the country, and that's where it starts changing that equation on the dairy side of things.
0:29:12.5 S1: Right, and that's why you think of meat coming from the Midwest, words less arable and dairy coming from places like New York or Vermont or whatever. Cool. Well, I do wanna say for our listeners that you used a lot of big words in this last piece of conversation about regenerative and carbon sequester is Sesto, and things like that, you will break that down a little bit more for those of us who might not know those words like you're talking to a farmer here with me, so I know you're talking about... But my listeners are all kinds of foods and food lovers, so break some of that down for us a little bit, like what you mean by some... What you're saying in more nonfarmer terms...
0:29:55.2 S2: Yeah, I need to work on this in general, so here I 0:29:57.5 S1: Go. We'll do it together. How is that? Yes.
0:30:01.0 S2: Let's do together. So here's how I think about it, and this is just my... Where there are living plants with deep roots, those roots are taking, let's just say, nutrients and things out of the air and putting them into the soil so that they can continue to cycle around. When you see things like bare ground or not living plant matter that's not always happening in between, that cycle is almost broken and miss the... Interrupt me if you want me to be more specific or if that's kind of the level of...
0:30:30.7 S1: Yeah, and different kinds of plants do that differently, so a lot of us farmers, especially as vegetable farmers, were really aware of how that's done with nitrogen, and a lot of our beans and like rooms are gonna do that the best with nitrogen and add nitrogen back into the soil, so you can grow vegetables without a lot of nutrients, but they're not gonna give you much flavor or a nutritional value, they're just gonna fill space in your empty stomach basically, if they even do that and they're not gonna be strong vegetables, they're not gonna grow as well, so they're not even
getting a yield, as much quantity as we need to feed all the humans on this planet, and so somehow you need to continue to put nutrients into the soil, the soil is the refrigerator that plants go to to get their meals. And so not only do you need to do that one, but every time you play in plants, you gotta keep doing it because the plans are gonna empty out the refrigerator of the soil, and there's gonna be no more food there and they're gonna need more. Right, so traditional farming, you're on...
0:31:37.9 S1: You need a way to put nutrients in the land now into the soil so that the plants can continue to grow now, some plants actually pull nutrients from the air and the water and convert them and put them back into the soil as well. So that is the nice thing about Beans and legumes is that's what they're doing, they're taking nitrogen and converting and putting in the soil, and then the next plant that you plan after that being gets all the benefit of that nitrogen. It's fat, right? Was that a good translation?
0:32:08.9 S2: Yeah, that was good. I was just gonna add the animals and additional nitrogen that can be then sequestered by the plants and stored in that refrigerator of sort... So it is sometimes uses like a bank is the other bank, a bank is another good way and you can make it incredibly complicated because it is a complicated biochemical process that happens every day, but trying to keep it...
0:32:38.2 S1: To guess what the animals help with is that certain plants, at least for us, humans, we can't eat or digest or We can't... Our bodies are not designed to derive the nutrients from that plant, we may technically be able to eat it and pop it back out again, but hopefully we talk about things like that on podcast, but we want our bodies don't pull the nutrients out like different kinds of digestion, processed foods differently and get nutrients in different ways, and so the other benefit to animals is that they're taking something that we can't digest and turning it into bioavailable nutrients for our human bodies. Yes, that's great. Yeah, and then the other piece is the carbon sequestering, so I'm gonna say more about that part. Well.
0:33:29.0 S2: Yeah, I guess it's related. Yeah, it's all related, and I would just say there's carbon and there are a list of other things that are... The plants need when they need CO2, so as they're living, they're taking in the CO2 and putting out oxygen, and in that process, the oxygen is going out and the carbon is going into the soil from the CO2, and that is how we get oxygen to breathe and live and the carbon is going into the soil...
0:33:58.9 S1: Yeah, and then what happens in the soil as the vegetable farmer, I can say that one of the things I was told really early on and starting the farm is constantly be thinking about how to add a carbon to your soil, so like green matter, even cardboard wood chips, leaf debris, because all the worms and bugs and things, they like the carbon and they break that down and turn, and then in turn, they digest that and spit out all the other nutrients that we need, so that the plants need to grow vegetables. So that's kind of... We're getting super technical, but I think it's cool to know how this all works, and if you pay attention to climate change, you pay attention to global warming, part of that is there's too much CO2 in the atmosphere and it's rising, so the more land that we have that can have grass and can have plans that pull the carbon out, the better we can start to heal and possibly even reverse the rising carbon, the rising CO2 with the rising climate on our planet, which means we can continue to live here. And so what I hear is that, or what I know is that the animals and livestock are also part of that process.
0:35:15.4 S2: Yeah, and I think looking at the dairy side of things is how do we do this efficiently for the earth while creating nutrientdense foods and high quality foods that are all part of that cycle.
0:35:27.2 S1: I wanna go back to dairy dairy cattle that turn into beef cattle and tell us the difference between the meat, like someone who... What would they notice? I
0:35:38.6 S2: Guess I like just talking about it in the raw state, you would actually notice the color and the smell is very different, and I kinda say If I put a scale of zero being veal, which is a very young animal, and if you've had venison or avian type product might be like a 10 in terms of darkness of color, which is a reflection of the myoglobin in the animal... My beef is probably... Your grocery store beef is like a three almost... It almost looks like veal to me occasionally. It's so mild and color, and my beef is that seven... Six, seven range in terms of the richness. Looks for maroon. And so it looks different. Visually, frozen, raw, and then kind of smelling it, there's a distinct like Rich grassy... I don't wanna say mineral earthy kind of smell, but it smells different when I've done different metastases, you kinda touch a veal or younger animals always more mild, but there isn't much to smell in the raw state. And I was at a butchery program and they talked about really good beef, you touch it and smell it raw, and when you're working with it, you actually wanna eat it.
0:36:54.2 S2: Our listeners to 0:36:55.2 S1: The home on passing their meats and smelling them before they make dinner... Now I can totally see it. And someone's gonna be like, Honey, what are you doing? Like, Oh, I'm smiling or me to see if it smells good...
0:37:05.5 S2: Yeah, it's just not good. People ask me like you to... It isn't be gonna be bad or good or bad, or spoiled bad, and I'm like, I literally just smell my meat, if it still smells like I wanna eat it, then it's good, it's good, but if it doesn't smell like anything... It's like a red flag to me. So our beef has this very... And I tell customers, come to the shop, I'm like, I appreciate it, wrong. Look at it, smell it, feel it, just get familiar with in their raw state, so I think understanding, appreciating it and the raw or just getting more familiar with your food in the raw state, especially proteins, 'cause you'll start to notice a big difference 'cause you should want to touch it is something else I learned, and the butchery sense, they're like, if you open up that soap chicken and you're like watching your hands immediately, it's like, your food should make you feel disgusting or gross or dirty... In the raw state, that's kind of with the color, the scent, the smell in the flavor, and then in the cook state, it's bold and rich in its favor and very beefy, so people talk about eating older animals, they're more satiated from a smaller portion because it just has a lot of robust flavor, whereas eating a younger animal really just, it's a more mild experience or When I occasionally do, we take some other place, I always just kinda taste butter to me or whatever cooking additive they added is what the meat takes on in terms of what it tastes like, so.
0:38:42.2 S2: Yeah. It's a distinct flavor profile. I... And
0:38:44.5 S1: Some in... You think of the difference between mutton and lamb. 0:38:47.5 S2: Exactly, it is the same one.
0:38:48.9 S1: For listeners, mutton is an older sheep, where Lamb is usually a lamb, they're usually a year or less and are much younger, and when you taste one, it has that media gamer flavor, whereas lamb, which still has a bit of a media flavor compared to, say, beef isn't quite so much as much. It's the same thing.
0:39:12.0 S2: Same thing. Yeah, that's great. Is it 0:39:13.3 S1: Areas because what... As an animal is longer, it's taking more, it eating more and taking in more nutrients, we hope and that builds their muscles, which is what we eat. And the fats, right?
0:39:28.1 S2: Yeah, and a lot of it is myoglobin, and that's what causes that color change, and it has a lot to do with the myoglobin in the animals, so...
0:39:36.2 S1: Yeah, they say, it's interesting. They say, eat the rainbow. And the reason they say that is because different minerals and vitamins make different colors, it... Many of us know carrots, betacarotene is gonna be your orange, many people know the antioxidants and say blueberries and blue and dark red and purple fruits is really good, those are good nutrients too, so different food. And so that go... I think part of the... What you said, the myoglobin, what makes that darker color is that there's different and more richer nutrients.
0:40:13.3 S2: Yeah, and we actually did do nutritional testing this past year, and I just pulled it up, sent the exact percentage, but we had a 216% higher vitamin A content than grassfed beef, actually, where we're comparing to imported grass... I'd be from Australia. Oh my gosh, I need to add this to my Instagram story. It had higher iron as well, and so yeah, there are nutrient differences as the animal, a lot of it has to do with it's diet and then how long it lives.
0:40:43.4 S1: Which also means you don't have to eat as much to actually give value... I'd rather eat a smaller amount of something and get like feel really associated, feed my body, what it means really well, as opposed to eating a large amount of something that's just like... People talk about empty calories, but that fills me, but doesn't actually run my body well... Yeah, exactly, yeah. And we have the same thing. I've looked at... I haven't actually tested myself, but I have read studies on eggs in the same way, and as are fun because the yokes change color with what the chicken seats, so when I'm in tomato season, I give a lot of the crack tomatoes or ones that... We're not gonna sell or use to the chickens, they love tomato, and within a certain number of days of eating stratum toes, their yolks get really dark orange because of all the red in the tomatoes, and it's delicious. And they've done studies too with pastureraised poultry, pastor raised eggs that have pet 300% more of all the vitamins and minerals that are in eggs and 34% less cholesterol. So it's an incredible... I just...
0:41:54.8 S1: It's like, Yeah, it might be a more expensive egg, but you're getting so much more
bang for your buck, I guess... Yeah, by eating that kind of quality of eggs or meat or whatever.
0:42:04.3 S2: I keep thinking about like How do you not retail based off price profound, but price per trees per pound is how I'd like to think about it.
0:42:15.2 S1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, I think why we're talking about all this is to invite you all to be in a different relationship with your food, we often say, Know Your Farmer, Know Your Food, and that's really true. And Jill's example of the meat balls coming from Australia, it's like, I have no idea who grew that cow and what happened to it and what life was like and what not, but I know if I buy meat from Jill, I know exactly where it's coming from, and what happens the whole life history of that cow for you, I know growing up, how would you say growing up on a farm really influenced your awareness of your relationship to food? In every way possible, every way.
0:43:05.6 S2: I think I also like to add, my dad was a truck driver, so I got a joke. I grew up in this food supply chain as our family household, which just kind of really informs how I think about things today, because I was always just hearing my parents talk about how much cabbage was and then how many pallets... And there was a rejection, and are there gonna be enough trucks and this going to market challenges, which I think is such a huge obstacle for food businesses or I think particularly like women food businesses especially, so... Yeah, I think to... My family was just very dedicated to producing food, and it was a farming community we grew up in to, so I really was kinda just the way of life for a lot of people, and I guess... Yeah, I didn't fully appreciate it until I was older. It's kind of... I think everyone in says that you go away and you realize like, I was a token farm girl and you're like, Oh, this is who I am in this group, and there's not that many, so I... Speaking of not that many, I would say so far have not met very many meat purveyors who are women, what's been your experience in this piece of industry as a woman? I feel lucky I kind of stumbled very quickly into a crew of women in the beef industry through the good meat projects like girls meet camp, which I highly recommend...
0:44:35.2 S2: I think they're gonna be doing it again. It was just like 12 women and we slaughtered and processed and did a whole Animal Care, and that network has just been incredible from a support or ideas or... I think finding people and meeting people like you, Missy, that are just customer turns into this new relationship or Jessica, who was on your show, she was in my shop yesterday. 'cause we're brainstorming a few things, making sure she's gonna have product for your CSA, so I think you gotta just keep building that web. I think specifically in the beef side of things, the scale of it makes it, I think, difficult for women to kind of do it. They're heavy, everything is heavy to have a big diesel truck to do anything, so I was actually telling my husband the other day, I said, Sometimes it's exhausting, 'cause I feel like I'm just learning... Every day is something I literally have no idea how to do and never learned or was taught about Everest
0:45:45.6 S1: In a dual track.
0:45:47.3 S2: Yeah, we rigged up this... My dad helped to with this, a diesel generator in the back of an F350, which I now understand why you needed a big pickup truck for these things, 'cause beef is super heavy. And that was plugged in, and I was driving to Pennsylvania to go to the slaughter house, and I was like, This is so hard. And I have very... I feel like I have a lot of the kinda talk about the supply chain side of support on my side, I am so privileged in that sense, and it
is so hard in the beef side because you've gotta have a big truck and you've gotta have a cattle truck and you've gotta have these pieces of expensive capital infrastructure to get going and so I'm trying to navigate that now, but I had a low day last week about it all. I was like, Man, this is really hard.
0:46:38.0 S1: What do you do when you have a low day? Like that. I think we as women in business have those moments... I think anyone in business kind of those moments, but we as women definitely have them that... 'cause I do have yourself or what do you do? You day like that.
0:46:54.7 S2: The thing that really stuck about last week was I had three more days ahead of me that we're gonna be equally challenging, and it wasn't until the Sunday, and really today that I've refilled my cup of sorts, I try to make a day that Tuesdays are kind of my day that is, I try to protect more of like, Don't do any butter meet Coach type work and do what I love and makes me happy, so getting up in the morning and Miss cup of coffee and trying to write and think... I did a Pilates session with a friend, and then I love roller blading, I need physical activity, really helps me balance things out, that's not like a workrelated... Productivityrelated physical activity. And then before we hopped on here, I was catching up on just gardening, it makes me so happy, so I was gardening and thinking about how I can't do what I did to myself, what I did last week.
0:47:52.5 S1: 'cause I'm so glad that you consider having this conversation as part of maybe your nourishing day, it is you using part of your fill up your cup day to show up with me.
0:48:08.4 S2: No, these are the things that make me, I guess, passionate, 'cause food business in the feminine is just something that try fact out is... It's hard, but it is something that... It means a lot to me looking to the future and how I can contribute to the world.
0:48:32.7 S1: Yeah, I so appreciate that. So we're in a moment, I'm gonna ask you more about the women in your family and learning about food from them, but before we do that, I wanna take a quick break and talk about the sponsorship of women in food. Our local Yelp Buffalo has been a wonderful supporter of women in food programming almost since the beginning of this program. Did you know that you can search for womenowned businesses specifically on Yelp, Support your local womenowned businesses by patronizing them, and especially by writing reviews through Yelp, you can download the Yelp app if you don't have it or use it on your computer, and you can filter by women owned businesses to seek them out, so next time you're thinking about a restaurant or grocery store or a clothing shop, CB can find on Yelp under womenowned businesses and help support us all to grow, like Jill was just referring to. We sometimes have a very strong hill to climb and having your support really makes a difference. Besides Yelp, our best sponsors are the growing community of people who are passionate about food and supporting the diversity of women's voices in our food cultures like yourselves, we don't really have sponsors that sell you things on this podcast, our sponsors are you...
0:50:04.5 S1: If you are not a sponsor of women in food, I invite you to become so by joining the women in food Facebook community, access this group of food lovers like yourself to share an additional resources beyond this podcast to feed your curiosity and your love of food while also supporting the global community of women and food businesses, this is kind of what the women in food community is about on Facebook, and we have days to share what you have to offer and what you're selling or doing... We have days to do recipe swaps in the Facebook group, we have fun
Food Fridays to share silly things or fun things about food that are delighting you, and it's a resource that you can always turn to for recipes for women made food products for a new restaurant, if you're traveling or looking for a place to go for dinner or even help with your garden growing or raising food, this community is the place for all of that, so if you're interested in sponsoring this podcast and becoming a woman in food community member, go check it out, and you can read about it, and women in food dot net for community, and it's a really rich community, and a lot of my guests are there, so you have an opportunity to interact with our podcast guests more between...
0:51:31.8 S1: Just listening to the episodes. So with that, Joe, talk a little... Tell me about your Grammy, I don't know about your gray
0:51:43.1 S2: On... She's probably my favorite person was my art person in the world, Oshima, she was a science teacher, which I just loved, she raised a family farm with my grammy and went to... Got a master's degree with four kids in the 60s.
0:52:03.2 S1: Yeah, which I 0:52:04.3 S2: Know, I just am like thing... That was not... That's not easy today. And I think it said something about my grandfather, who I didn't really know, or I did not know my grandfather, but he passed way before I was born, but yeah, my grammy had four kids at home, we got a Masters and... Yeah, I just think she... She was almost this scholar gentry of a woman on was like what I think of her as. So yeah. And she just loved unconditionally. Which is what I really admire about her. Like all people, which sounds like she's a really amazing... Or was a really amazing feminine role model for you. Yes, yeah, she was... Yeah.
0:52:53.1 S1: What I love is that the recipe you're gonna share from Grammy is not beef at all after we just spend all this time talking about bet, but I think that's fabulous because really, the bigger conversation we're talking about here is relationship, being in relationship to your food and one of the ways that we can be in relationship to our food is by recipes that and share down with us from our parents or grandparents, aunts, uncles, family members, our ancestry, and this is one of those recipes, right? Yeah, yeah, and in fact, I just have to tell for our listeners what you sent me of a copy of this recipe was a scan of an actual handwritten recipe card, which I just love... Is this your handwriting or is this... You know, this is my grammy Grammy and writings have Grammys handwriting in front of me, which is so sacred, this is going in my recipe box for sure, that I printed it out, and I'm just gonna share a little insiders look with our listeners that when you forwarded me, the email where you had this scan, it was part of a conversation with you and a cousin about variations of the recipe, and I just think that's fun as well, like our relationship to family recipes and to our family members through food.
0:54:10.8 S2: Yeah, and I think that's actually why I was like, I wanna share this recipe 'cause it's what all of my cousins, like my family can all talk about these roles and literally being a young child and fighting over them with cousins, there are spend tears over how many rules, you got... So we all still treasure this recipe, and I think it... It's a basic sweet dog or it's a basic dough, which it's fun to have, you can do a lot of things with that type of recipe that you can add whatever you want or roll it up and make it a sweet role is... Yeah.
0:54:46.9 S1: Okay, so we're gonna make sweet roles is the recipe. And why don't you start by telling us what the ingredients are.
0:54:55.3 S2: Okay, it's three, four cup of milk 0:54:57.8 S1: At a esopus, you want good, New York? Yes. Check your plant code. Check your plan Code 3 on a home. Loft doesn't matter.
0:55:08.9 S2: I guess I always use whole milk game. I don't remember, and I don't have it in my notes. I actually a video of us making them together 0:55:16.5 S1: Too... Oh my God, is that on YouTube or somewhere that I can share a linked in or I 0:55:22.6 S2: Can find it? And said, Yeah, I know it's not on YouTube, but I could find it. 0:55:27.2 S1: Is it... Do you need a family member? Permission?
0:55:29.8 S2: To me, it's me and Grammy, I don't see what 0:55:32.4 S1: Ashes listeners, we will have a video of jilin Grammy making Grammy sweet rolls, and the show notes, I will figure out how to get a link for that 'cause that is so much fun. Okay, so three quarters a cup of preferably home milk.
0:55:49.2 S2: Half a cup of sugar, one and one quarter teaspoon of salt, a half a cup of butter, she actually writes or olive oil, which... I don't remember that ever.
0:56:03.2 S1: Better. Does the utter need to be melted? We do help it.
0:56:06.2 S2: We do a... Yeah, we do multi a third, a cup of warm water. Two packages of active dry yeast. And two eggs. Okay. And flower. Yeah, why is the follower not on the list, but... Yeah, I 0:56:23.5 S1: Onions, I'm looking at... It says about five cups of flower... The one you sent me, okay.
0:56:37.3 S2: I would say my grandma did this with a Kitchen Aid and she was like... The Kitchen aid mixer was her other hand, which I don't own, so when it's like adapted, which is also why I think they never quite come out as good as they always said when she did.
0:56:53.3 S1: It's just Grammy love sometimes that happens. Yeah, and she was late. Grammy love.
0:56:57.8 S2: No. And she was super particular about the temperatures with a big thing in all of her recipe notes, and it is in these... Do you see it? So
0:57:05.7 S1: What are our stuff... You want it... You were gonna say...
0:57:09.4 S2: Sorry. Okay, you add that you take the water the third, a couple of warm water and at the East and just starts going, you warm the milk and butter in the microwave, not like... Totally me. You want it melted? But not like bubble.
0:57:26.6 S1: Okay, and can we do that stove top gently? Yeah, it's totally fine. So first, I'm gonna just repeat to make sure I got it and we're all clear, first we're gonna take the warm water and they use to make them together in a ball and let them sit, and that's because we need to activate the yeast and get it started right. Then in another ball, we're going to warm up the milk and butter, so the butter is lightly melted her in a pot or in the microwave... Yeah. Okay, next up, and then you wanna start on your sugar and salt into the milk. Into the milk. Okay, so start in the sugar salt into the milk and add the eggs. Okay, and I imagine you wanna make sure it's cool before you had the eggs, otherwise you're gonna have scrambled DES...
0:58:09.4 S2: Yes, yes. And I usually give that a good start with a whisk, just to kinda get everything in there and then start adding your flower, and you wanna work that into a dough... Yeah, we're gonna do a dog... Yeah, she was a big fan of her do hook.
0:58:27.5 S1: Okay, so I use the dough. What kind of speed? I 0:58:31.5 S2: Think what she's got on her speed to meet on speed two for seven, 10 minutes.
0:58:36.9 S1: Okay, and if you don't have a kitchen? 'cause I don't either. And you said you don't... How do you... You just start with a spoon like... Yeah.
0:58:43.9 S2: I just go at it. Yeah, with the spoon. 0:58:45.6 S1: I don't... And
0:58:47.0 S2: You wanted to get to just whatever, when you're making at home, which is like a smooth elastic dough, it should be very smooth, and that's
0:58:53.1 S1: A very pretty dog. Right, so it's smooth, but it's elasticy. So it's gonna be a little sticky. Yeah.
0:58:59.5 S2: When I should have said it goes into a nineinch cake pan or like a pie pan, works well for these. Okay.
0:59:07.5 S1: Should have mentioned at the beginning... Okay, so we've added the flower and we get an interest and then do we need it anymore or you just mix it in the ball...
0:59:17.1 S2: No, it's mix at the ball and then you wanna let it rise for a little while, so you put it into a bowl and let it rise, she was just kinda, I think said double inside, she have a time, so I think that usually takes like two hours.
0:59:29.9 S1: One to two hours. Yeah, so a lot of rides, and I would say like modern inventions, when I may do, I have an oven that has a proof setting, which is magic. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah. So if you have a proof setting or warm setting on your oven, try that out and sometimes it goes a little faster, should check it more, set your timer for less an hour and keeping on it. And usually, if you're gonna let flower rise, you wanna cover the ball too and sometimes oil the ball, so that doesn't stick.
1:00:01.0 S2: Yeah, so yeah, double, let it double in size, I want to double inside, you take it out and you punch it in, I think they call it or push it in, don't touch it too much, and then you basically make little round kind of like hot cross buns look in a pan, those little, make little... And you send them all in there, and they don't need to be touching when you put it in there right away, 'cause you let them rise again, you want them to rise so they're touching again, but you leave space and then you bake them for like... All she says 350 for 20 minutes. Got it. That seems pretty simple. It is, and they are simple and they're handy and good, so... Cool, and
1:00:45.8 S1: Is there a particular holiday or time that you associate these with, especially that she would make the
1:00:51.9 S2: Site, but it was... Yeah, Christmas and Thanksgiving and Easter.
1:00:56.5 S1: Cool, is there another... I feel like I wanna hear more about Grammy. She is such a cool
1:01:01.4 S2: Lady, I guess, yeah. When you talk about curiosity, and that was what you kinda described me as, and I was like that, I feel like was inspired by my grammy and my mom, but my grandma, she always just joke she could be a professional student and I like grammar, a professional student. You're always learning, and she was a widow for over 30 years, and I just think she was so strong independent and continued to live like a full life, and so
1:01:32.4 S1: Did you get to cook with her often?
1:01:35.1 S2: Yeah, we did all kinds of things together, but yeah, we got to cook. She was a big preserver, and Ppicking was an annual festival of sorts with Grammy and shocking piece and then corn. She did sweet corn, but our freezer was always stocked with everything that Grammy had preserved from her like garden or she'd go to the big field from our family's farm to pick the peas and we'd help her do that, so she was... And now her sister, she since she's past her sister, my in June still like Max and it tastes like Grammys cord. It's like they're the core and they make... So yeah, we always had a freezer full of everything that she had preserved for us to eat as kids growing up for...
1:02:19.2 S1: Yeah, and that's really another relationship to food thing, if we're gonna come full circle, when you get into talking about preserving, and actually our first episode, we talked about fermenting as a form of preserving, so if you haven't gone back and listened to our second episode with Tanya Westfall Grier, we talked about fermenting, but part of relationship to food is also seasonality and knowing what's available when, which also means you do need to learn preserving,
at least in the Northeast United States, because there's times where there's not really much available for Goan, so being able to preserve and I feel such a different relationship with food as I've lived on a farm and learned a lot of these skills and... Gosh, there's so much modern progress that's valuable, and yet returning, looking backwards at some of these skills is really valerian, such a gift that you got to learn a lot of that from your Grammy directly.
1:03:21.8 S2: Yeah, and she definitely invested in sharing that knowledge or... I was thinking a CPE weeks ago, we went to all the cemeteries in our region to find ancestors and took pictures, and she was always just reading and wanting to... She really was like a matriarch of sorts, and the way she did things and taught you things, so... Yeah, I think it was also special getting to have my relationship, I had this incredible atop with as a kid growing up, but then more as an adult, having a relationship with an older woman like that, when you're in your 20s, it's a different relationship. And how special that it can be, so I'm lucky to have to the at that time, or Thank you for sharing a little piece of that relationship and your Grammy with all of us. I really treasure it. It just feels so sweet. Yeah, she was great.
1:04:14.9 S1: Yeah, so as we come to completion here in this conversation, knowing you and I will have lots of conversations going forward... What would you like to leave our listeners with? We talked about so much in this conversation.
1:04:29.4 S2: I can keep falling along these types of stories and being curious and... Yeah, I guess I wanted to say thank
1:04:36.2 S1: You. Yeah, thank you. I think what I've heard is this thread for your life of getting curious, using your curiosity to be in deeper relationship with everything, with what you eat, what you put in your body, with your family members, with your ancestry, with whatever it is that excites you, so for Jill, the food cycle and dairy and beef cattle is what really interests her and the food, modern food processes and her curse takes her all over the place with that and use your curiosity with what excites and interests you to lead you to know and understand and make choices based on that information. I mean, I think that's what I've learned in this conversation. Yeah, well, Joel, thank you so much for sharing your Grammy and your stories and your wealth of information, you just know... I love that you know the information in the background and you keep asking questions and you do more research on me on dairy on the food process, and thank you sharing your recipe with us today. Also, to all our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode of women in food and got a bit of inspiration for your next meal.
1:06:00.9 S1: I imagine many of you're gonna sit down to some of Grammy sweet roles, a last request, if you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're using to listen and give us a rating and review. It really only takes a few seconds and it's a simple act that helps us a ton. Once again, thank you for accompanying me on this delicious adventure, do me around the table for our next episode and to get ready to eat!