#13 | Paige Jackson: Choosing Food Transparency & Perfectly Roast Chicken
In this week’s episode, I talk to regenerative farmer, wife, foodie and mom to five kids, Paige Jackson, who I first ‘met’ online when she posted about her Romertopf clay baker (you can hear the whole story in the interview!). We talk about how her quest to have more transparency in food after experiencing some health complications led her and her husband on the path to starting their own farm and eventually raising their kids participating in farm life. Learn some of Paige’s secrets to including kids as a part of the farm business equation and how she supports her kids’ individual interests. Paige teaches us about regenerative pasture-raised livestock and why that choice allows their farm business to uphold their values. Along the way, we touch on so many topics including growing up as one of 14 siblings, her mom’s big dinner table, different kinds of milks and digestibility, capitalism and food and how their business Grass Grazed started with a few chickens in their yard to become the thriving enterprise it is today. My favorite quote is: “Farmers are Foodies, too” which sums up Paige’s passion for food — raising it, cooking it and sharing with community all of which is expressed in her Roasted Chicken Recipe.
The Recipe starts at: 53:24
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Paige’s Farm Website: Grass Grazed Farm
Paige’s Social Media Links: Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter
If you’re curious, here’s more about the Romertopf Clay Bakers (the site is in German, but most browsers can translate)
Missy’s Farm Website: CrownHillFarm.com
Missy’s Business Coaching Website: SpiritBizPeople.com
How to make a Perfectly Roast Chicken (any night of the week!)
INGREDIENTS:
1 4-5lb Whole Chicken
½ c Salt
Enough water to submerge the chicken fully
½ c. rendered lard (or butter)
Salt, Pepper & Garlic Powder to taste
METHOD:
Dissolve salt in warmed water and allow water to cool
Submerge chicken in the salt water for 12-18 hours (don’t exceed 24 hours)
Remove the chicken and pat dry
Preheat oven to 350F
If you want, spatchcock the chicken first: cut along either side of the spine and remove. Flip the chicken over and press down on the breast bone until you hear it crack and it flattens.
Make sure your rendered lard or butter is melted but not hot – spread the fat all over the chicken, especially on the skin side
Sprinkle with salt, pepper and garlic powder (or other herbs of choice)
Lay out the chicken on a clay dish or roasting pan and roast for about 1 hour (temp should be 160F in breast meat)
Optional: You can put cut vegetables underneath or around the chicken to cook at the same time.
In our commitment accessibility, we’d love to offer polished show notes to help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. However, Women in Food is still a startup with limited resources. So we’re not there yet.
What we can offer are these very imperfect show notes via the Scribie service. The transcription is far from perfect. But hopefully it’s close enough - even with the errors - to give those who aren’t able or inclined to learn from audio interviews a way to participate.
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0:00:04.1 S1: Welcome to another episode of women in food. I'm your hostess, Missy Singer DuMars. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, food, business, and the feminine. Each episode, I invite you to sit down with me in my interview, guest, as we dive into this intersection to spark your food curiosity, share a favorite recipe and give you some fun food explorations along the way. I'm inspired by these women, women farmers, shaft bakers, cooks, writers and food makers, who all bring their passion for beauty, for nourishment, community, pleasure, connection and deep care to others through food. These are women who advocate and take action towards increased food awareness for themselves, their families and their neighborhoods. Before I introduce today's guest, I have one request, if you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're using to listen and give us a rating and review. It's a simple act. That helps us a ton. Thank you so much. So today, I'm so excited to introduce to you Paige Jackson. Paige is a regenerative farm manager, momma to five, and manages to find time to educate her audience about food consistently. She and her husband launched grass grazed farm in 2019, while stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
0:01:25.5 S1: They focus on soil health and sustainable farming on their pasture-based regenerative farm, where they raise pork, chicken and beef and dairy cattle, all grass-fed. One thing I love about Paige and Derek is that they are 100% committed to transparency from the farm all the way to the table, and this comes through in everything that Paige does. She also told me that she enjoys reading and trying new recipes from America's Test Kitchen, which I have to admit is one of my favorites as well. Paige. Welcome, so much. Welcome, welcome. Welcome to women in food. I'm really honored to have you join me today.
0:02:03.0 S2: Hello, thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here. And
0:02:07.2 S1: I have to share, I don't even know how I started following you on social media. But that's how I know who you are. And I think we first bonded when I saw you showing people how to bake in a clay Baker of what's called a ROM or top, and I come to... That started... We exchanged.
0:02:26.9 S2: And I don't even think anyone knows what that is, but I had been researching the best ways to bake bread, and I don't know, I'm always looking for cooking items, right, so whether it's in the store or a premise, and I bought them and you totally committed, and I think you were the only person who...
0:02:49.0 S1: I know what those are. Don't Amiel, I have to tell you a funny story about those... I didn't know what they were until my dear... Do a girlfriend Debra. We, early on, when I met her, we were making dinner and she's like, I'm gonna roast a chicken, and she called it the brick in my brick and I'm like a brick... What's that? She's in teats, a Romer tough. And she said her mother always called it the brick, and the one that she had was from others, and we did that and then we would do that regularly. Rose chicken or other things, it... And one day I was on my way to her house, and I must have texted her and said, Hey, I'm on my way, I'll be there soon, and she's like, Oh good, I just put the chicken in the brick, but a predate to the Buick, so she... Tennille joke, and I love when I find... For our listeners is called A Romero, M-E-R-T-O-P-F, and it's a clay Baker, and you soak it in water for at least to half an hour, and so what it does is whatever you cook in it, whether it's baking bread or roasting me or whatnot, it keeps a lot of moisture in somatosensory, don't need to have a tray of water underneath absolute for moisture, and it's super fun to work with, although I will say Be careful if you cook fish in it 'cause then it smells like fish forever.
0:04:15.8 S2: Oh man, I haven't even gotten into that at all to... I don't think I will. I'm gonna stick with Coulter and bread. Those are safe. Yeah.
0:04:25.2 S1: So I'm curious what... Love came first for you, a love of cooking or a love of raising and growing food.
0:04:34.3 S2: Oh man, I would definitely say I love cooking. I have a large family, and I'm actually one of 14. And so, yeah, yeah, so I think just this whole picture of having literally a big meal, like a big spread... We have this humongous table, which was like my mom's dream to always have this extremely long table where everyone can sit with a large family sometimes that's hard to do, but yeah, we finally eventually got this really large table that literally took up the whole dining room area and yeah, so just having this love for cooking and enjoying community is just... I've always just been a part of me.
0:05:26.9 S1: And then the farming came, so what led you to raising animals and started the farm...
0:05:34.0 S2: Well, I believe it or not, because then I started farming in our backyard, we basically kinda went down this rabbit hole, my husband was the most here for 14 years and he was experiencing some health issues, and I had already kinda been on that kick of just trying to be a conscious eater. So whether that was just researching, but we were eating and what was going into it, we joke, but I had banned a lot of things from our house, 'cause I was like, We can't eat that, but that's also... You can't eat this. And anyway, so I feel like what my husband also came to this point where he too is dealing with in health complications that led to us saying, Okay, we should really examine what's in our food and how it's big raised even deeper. And of course, that meant watching a lot of documentaries and things on Netflix or what have you, and we started supporting local farmers, the more we learned about farming and kind of again, that's warrior from... Comes from for farmers, we realize that the best way to really know that is to work with a local farmer, as a local farmer that we happen to be working with, supporting our poultry needs, he were an out of chicken, and so my husband had this great idea to just raise it ourselves, so we started raising chicken in our canosa backyard, that really was our front yard, he lived in like an HOA dated community, but
0:07:09.0 S1: I know many HOA letters did you get about chickens in the front yard...
0:07:12.7 S2: Well, actually, we were pretty smart with it, we discuss the tractor to look like a... 'cause once I got out of the bruderhof, a built a breeder and no one saw them in the broader... But then when they transitioned on pasture, which was our front yard, we built a tractor that looked like a green house, he covered it with tar and... No one really knew what it was. I mean, at one point, my neighbor's grandmother, I think he kind of like was being really nosy 'cause she heard a lot noise and she was like, Wait a minute, you guys have chickens in there, and we're like, Yeah. Yes, yes we do. But no one reported us or anything, so we got Amy with it, we move the track, your daily, and that kind of started as a, I guess, a foundation for what we now are doing on a much bigger scale that... In our yard.
0:08:11.1 S1: Yeah, and so for our listeners, when Paige talks about a tractor, what... It's not a tractor like you drive in the fields... Right, it's like a little chicken house that can be made a lot of different ways with a lot of different shapes, and they call it a tractor 'cause you move it around on the grass or the lawn and to the chickens every couple of days are exposed to a new patch of fresh grass and bugs and stuff, and then where they were has time to grow back with all that lovely chicken coop and manure in it and fertilizer, and they call that chick Mahindra Tor. So my listeners are not necessarily farmers, I knew what you meant, but I like to make sure others know and... So you start... So how did a few chickens in your HOA Home Front Yard and a tractor turn into a business?
0:09:10.4 S2: Well, after elections in our yard, we had friends who were interested in what we were doing, and they were like, Hey, I would like to try a chicken, and we raised 25 chickens originally, and so we shared with our friends and our family, and at that point, my husband, as a family, we decided that we were gonna transition out of the military just because the military had taken a toll on us after so long, and he was at a point in his career, really a pivotal point where he was up for promotions, he denied it, and said, Hey, I'm gonna choose my family, and leaves a sign, and this all was kind of happening at the same time where while we were raising chickens, had the idea of like, why... Don't we turn this into a business. Why don't we do this as a business, we realized that if we were having trouble finding transparency in our food, and so that was raised the way that we were raising it, then maybe there really was a market for this, and so that really led us to taking the next steps of finding land, which we did, we found land that was available for lease, at that time it was over 60 acres, so it was like...
0:10:36.6 S2: When I say it was fast and furious, it was really fast, so we ended up signing an agreement and with that, and we ended up actually then having more chickens, we then I think had about 75 Lannan then we... So we had Lankans, meat, birds, and then later on, we've eventually got hogs and not just kind of really still all things to work with me, so... Yeah.
0:11:05.8 S1: So now you have chickens and then you added hogs to the mix... Yes. And then you graduated to cattle? Yes.
0:11:17.2 S2: Yes, I graduated. I guess, yeah. We graduated the cattle. So when we started the business, we knew that in order to really make money, because again, we were making a really big transition from going to a regular paycheck to now farming full-time, we realize that... And we're gonna get a jump start, we probably needed to have customers, so at that point, I actually kind of ironically found another farm that was, I guess it would be considered local to us, who was selling like they were going out of business, and what I... Selling, they were selling their hard assets, some of their soft assets, but mostly the business, so they also... That then gave us a jump start when it came to cattle, we got were hogs and seeing a lot of the things that you really needed, but not the land... Right, 'cause we had already signed a lease for the land, so it was basically like we took on another farm, but it re-branded it to be grass grazed. Right, cool.
0:12:35.7 S1: That's so interesting, and just out of curiosity, 'cause I think one of the things, at least listeners who might wonder how farms get started, they think of farmers as farms, a past generation of generation of generation, but you both are newer farmers... Right, right. We have different stories on how we first get started, and so that investment was that, did friends and family help you out, did you... Yeah, no knowledge. You afford it if you left drives.
0:13:10.0 S2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we took our savings and basically, we just went all in in terms of bootstrapping, this is good, trapping and it's fine, we basically took... No, really, we took what we had been saving at when it came to, I guess, the branding and the conception of the grass grades as we know it today, that was... Before I was a farmer, I worked as a Social Media Marketing Strategist, and so I had a lot of the know-how in terms of... And my husband actually went to school for business, so we really did have, I guess, both kind of entrepreneurial mindset, and so when it came to going into this not being generational farmers, we knew that acquiring an existing farm would help us in terms of having a customer base, but also I knew a branding and marketing perspective, what we were trying to do was definitely different in terms of what this other farm did, so we basically just kind of did the powers combined were we needed customers to sell to as well as some of the hard assets like livestock, using the capital that we had in our savings just helped us to become more established quickly...
0:14:38.5 S1: That's great, and I can so resonate. Like U-N-I and Eric are probably really similar in that the business part is easy and the farming part is the learning curve, right, race from a marketing and sales and business background as well, and most farmers I me, are so intimidated by branding and online and all that stuff, but they can farm forever and I'm like, I got more customers and I do, 'cause I know how to sell and brand and market, but I have whole crops that fail because I'm still learning how to...
0:15:13.6 S2: Far, right, right. But it goes hand in hand.
0:15:18.1 S1: That does, and I don't think people realize as a farmer, you're a business person, you're a botanist, you're a plumber, you're an electrician, there are Terra veterinarian sometimes... All the thing. Gosh, I have a whole shelf of animal husbandry veterinary stuff now from a... Versions and things like that. I've never stops.
0:15:45.5 S2: It's like a constant... It sounds at all the time learning so many things.
0:15:50.7 S1: Yeah, so what is it about grass grade, not just the brand, but why did you choose that method for your farm, and I say that because I know from personal experience that that's like choosing the hardest way to do everything... Yeah, yeah, it's not the easy route, and it's not the most profitable route in the farming world, so if you're looking to build a new business, why did you still choose such a challenging path, which I 100% agree with, but I'm just curious, your thought process and experience about that.
0:16:31.2 S2: Yeah, so I think when we started looking at just farming in general, and soon... And again, I think when you go down that rabbit hole of learning about your food and learning about just the production of food, now you learn that nutrient in suit is really hard to find it. And so when it came down to what we wanted to do and what we wanted to put on our table for our family, regenerative ag just made sense. Sure, it's probably not the easiest way, but everything that we... I would say I believed in and supported when it came to soul help, when it came to providing a high quality product that like I said, I felt good about serving to my own kids, it was just kind of the obvious answer. I was like, This is what we... This is how we're gonna raise our animals, which is a good one, so why our brand is called grass greens, we knew that we wanted to raise our animals on grass and grazing, and so when it came to informing the brand, it was like, This just makes sense and we... Our avatar is a chicken, 'cause we started with chickens and the tail of the chicken is ablative grass, because again, like that was our introduction to how we started and how we just wanna continue and see things go.
0:17:59.5 S2: And when you look at, like I said, the husband drive at all, animals really thrive in this environment, in the environment that they were created in, and so when we're trying to raise animals with integrity and just give them the best life possible, I couldn't imagine it done any other way?
0:18:19.8 S1: I wanna go back to a phrase you use, you were talking about choosing what provides the best health and wellness and nutrition and your lunch and soul health. Tell me more about that.
0:18:35.7 S2: Yeah, so one of the differences between what we're doing opposed to, I would say big ad or the commercial industry, is that a lot of times animals aren't necessarily raised on pasture, so I feel like when we're talking about so health, they're kind of absent of what it even looks like at times to even touch the ground, but what we've learned through this journey regard of Ag is like We are regenerating the soil by keeping your animals on the move and raising them on pasture, and so whether that's allowing pigs to be able to root and eat acorns or dig up trees, and then having the chickens follow the cows, it's just really this beautiful cycle of, like I said, regeneration. And so, when animals are raised in this way, it really does allow for the soul to be able to read, if you will, and so it's not... A lot of times if you go to take farms, they're just in one spot and they never move, they never really root or have the activity that they could, and in turn, they're just kind of left in this muddy pool, but if you actually rotate them throughout the woods or throughout the pastor, you would see that it's really life-giving to the environment around them, so...
0:20:12.7 S2: I hope I'm not born at... By talking about the non.
0:20:16.3 S1: I think it's giving the animals the best life possible, which then gives those of us who eat at the best life possible, which is a the land the best life possible. I think it's not boring at all. Okay, yeah. So for you, I know you said you kind of started the path of being aware of food and having the band foods in your household, I forget the term he used, but... Are banning things, I think... Was there a particular thing that sparked you to start researching and learning more or asking questions or what... Started you personally on this. Yeah.
0:21:11.4 S2: So I would say once I started having kids, that was kind of the start of... You just start examining things a little more, and I think it's because you have another person that you're caring for and it's like, well, I don't... I don't wanna just give you anything now, I wanna make sure that you're getting the nutrients that you need, and we go to all those appointments and wellness checks, and I was just that mom that always had questions or would just take a pause and really examine the things that I was being told, and when my son, who is now eight years old, when he turned one, I rested all of my kids, but when he turned one, I introduced Mike to him, like just regular milk on the very store, and he ended up having chronic ear infections, to the point to where He... They told him that he needed to have the surgery to get tubes in his ears, which is actually a pretty common surgery now, a lot of kids get it or have it, but he probably doesn't need to be as common as it is is
0:22:29.5 S1: Probably that you're...
0:22:30.3 S2: Say that. Well, yeah, I love one that I actually don't agree with that. I don't think as many kids need it to get it right, the doctors were pushing it so heavy, and I was like, Well, he never had these problems when he was breastfeeding, and the only time that he had this problem was when he started drinking milk, which again, if anyone knows those nutritional facts, they give you the doctors, I'm just gonna say, just take it with a great salt 'cause they're kind of garbage unless it's like a less on price anyway. But anyway, this is not to go, police was like, Okay, well, let's look at what he's actually eating, and it was the dairy and... So it was causing chronic congestion and to the point to where his ears were getting back to the doctors never told me this, but I knew as a mom, I knew it in my nor, you, this was what's causing it, so I just cut it out. I just cut out the dairy and come to find out the more research that I did, I started learning about Jerry operations here in the US and how they're completely different in the UK, and grasped at that time wasn't as big of a deal here as it is now even...
0:23:52.2 S2: But my knee, my knee-jerk response was to say, Well, we're just not gonna have it, you know, this is what's causing this, you... Now I'm gonna have it. So when I cut that out of his diet, he immediately didn't have issues anymore, they state the whole talk of surgery was off the table, but I knew at that point I was on to something. Right. And yeah, so I just became very... Just monitoring all of those things, so whether it was like eczema or I really realize that like, Hey, the food really is affecting our bodies and maybe more than what people are letting on because it's... We're in a commercial industry where everyone is telling you that this is the way that it's supposed to be, and then my husband, like I said, my husband was the one who kinda caught up later on when, you know, he was super fit, like the fittest of the fit. And he started also having issues like digestive issues, and the first inkling to that was dairy, and so... Yeah, I guess it's a little ironic now that... And now we have dairy cows, so that kind of fixes her problems, but that it really opened...
0:25:11.8 S1: Making your milk is not a problem. No.
0:25:15.2 S2: Not at all.
0:25:16.6 S1: So I wanna geek out on milk for a second, can we geek out on milk for a second?
0:25:20.2 S2: We can get out on the ice.
0:25:22.1 S1: So I'm curious what... And I'll explain why I'm asking, But what bread dairy cows you have, in other words... Are you raising A1 or A2 Milk?
0:25:32.7 S2: Yeah, we're raising 2 milk that we have jerseys as well as milking Devon. Our bull is a miniature bull is a miniature of Jersey, and they're all registered A2 A2, which for people at niketan... You explain why I asked that I can use that. Yeah, so A2 is really just a genetic makeup, and which you'll find in most commercial industries is a 1 mile, which at times can be harder to digest, at milk typically derives from more heritage breed cows in particular Jersey, particular journey. Absolutely, and it's easier to digest. So a lot of times when people have issues with dairy, they can actually digest a two milk and not have complications.
0:26:27.6 S1: Yeah, I recently learned a lot more about 81 versus 12 miles, I had an intern through the winter who could only have a milk, so I then researched where my rail comes from and what came... What catalog they are and what other farms in the area of A2 Milk, so that if I was gonna cook for her, I was using A2 Milk. It was really interesting. So yeah, the casing protein is a little different in the case, prayer standing is the history for our listeners, is that most dairy was a two-mile Evers came from Europe, and then the big Holstein cows, cattle were kind of developed and cross bread and whatnot to come to be... And that's the main dairy cattle that are using it, say for the general massive quantity of milk. So when you look at me, this is the thing with any food, is when you start to make choices to produce food for production and for profit and for quantity, in other words, capitalizing, capitalism and food, the health benefits suffer and even caused damage. And so with milk will happen is most milk now in the United States is the A1, unless you specifically...
0:27:54.4 S1: Now it's at... Or in most cases, if it says, so there's a local regional milk here called Ethical milk, that says Jersey cows, so that my intern was always okay with because the Jersey Camacho for the most part, or at least half at a 12. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But for my listeners, if you have issues digesting dairy, that's something you can investigate and it's not true for everyone, so it depends on the kind of issue with digestion that you have for many, many people at milk is much more digestible then...
0:28:30.4 S2: Yeah, and then, I guess not to economic botanicals, odour operation is completely 100% grasped, so a lot of dairy operations will give their cows grain, and this actually wasn't a method that was even incorporated, I would say... Maybe it's in the 1900s when people were giving their dairy cows grain, and that was really just to increase the no production rights. Cow's actually done grain because cows are ruminants animals, so they can live on grass and nothing else, and so when it comes to what they need, it's grass and grain was really just something that people would give them to supplement their diet through winters, but also because it would help increase their milk production, so we actually do not see our cows grain at all, they only have grass, and when we milk them, we give them out to complete, which is just more grass, but that's it, and then in the winter to supplement, we do organic but outside of that, they're on pasture all the time, and that's what they're not consist of, and for the longest time, I didn't... People kept telling me, like other dairy producers kept telling me that it was impossible, that there was no way that you could do it, just a cow wouldn't be able to survive, but logically it was like that doesn't make sense.
0:30:06.5 S2: Because when you look at the make-up of a cow that not made to eat or not bad to eat grain...
0:30:12.8 S1: Yeah, yeah, well, up here in New York where I am, we have a lot of grass-fed dairy in New York and Vermont and around here... That's awesome. No, yeah, that we have to grasp for it, 'cause we have enough water and the right temperature for beautiful green rolling hills and dairy cattle. I know my own experience, we just getting into digestible of dairy, my own experience is that the processing of the dairy matters a lot too, so... Absolutely, and there's lot more effect the more broken down the milk is, so I always... A low temperature, pasture, non-homogenized or a raw... Yeah, yeah, so for our listeners often digestible or read other reactions that aren't necessarily digestion related, for sure. How broken down it is, and for me personally, that's why I don't eat very aged cheeses and things like that, either very... 'cause the aging process is also breaking down the milk and the protein... Yeah, that's true. Cool, and I'm so curious, are your chickens 100% pasture or you... Do you supplement them?
0:31:34.1 S2: Yeah, so we supplement chicken with a steed just because chickens aren't cows and they definitely do need a little extra... Well, I take that back, we have raised a batch of chickens, they were Red Rangers, which is again, that's a heritage bird, and I would say that that's definitely a more tougher that could withstand just grazing, and so we actually didn't see them anything except for like... They were just out like free-ranging, so all the eight were bugs and they scratch behind the cows that they didn't get any feed at all, but it was kind of just an experiment that they did very well on, they ended up being pretty well developed a couple of them even started laying eggs in the ones... We found that out later. But no, so I definitely do think that it's possible to raise a chicken strictly on grass, but it will take a lot longer and so because without the two... Yeah, it takes a lot longer, but you know people in other countries do it all the time, and for us, chicken is a part of our operations, so it's kind of one of those things where in terms of planning, we know like, Okay, we need to produce this much chicken at this time in order to social market, so it's not, I would say the most economical thing to do to raise chickens on the scale that we are solely on grass without any type of feed.
0:33:16.2 S1: Yeah, I found I was so excited when I moved my girls to pasture the first time, and I significantly reduced their fee and even tried no feed and just Tigress, and they live on it, but my girls are layers and to really consistently Layton, the omitting... They live, they survived and they were strong and held me... Great, but if you want them to keep playing, they need some help. Absolutely.
0:33:47.0 S2: Yeah, yeah. Just they're made differently. And that's fine then. Yeah.
0:33:52.7 S1: You mentioned that you use soy-free feed, so do I... I'm curious if you can share more about why you make that choice about say.
0:34:01.7 S2: Well, really says in everything or are... We will know everything, I think so one of those things that's not some more people, but if you just take the time to look at say, and the make-up and why it's so commercialized and found in a lot of things, I think you'll find interest in that so for us, we really do wanna provide, I guess maybe we should say food that you can't find in grocery stores that's raised without things that they don't need, so... So really isn't something that chickens need per se, but it's something that has been added over time for a is cheap and fast to grow.
0:34:48.0 S1: Right, so it's cheap and fast to put it in feed and you get into any kind of livestock or poultry feed, you'll find it almost always has a... Most of the protein makeup comes from, say, and I choose... So for feed as well, we probably have used the same feed 'cause there aren't many choices were out there, and I have my own reasons for that as well, but it is hard to find, and it does make for expensive eggs.
0:35:18.1 S2: Yeah, it does it that
0:35:20.2 S1: People... They are so delicious and the decisions to want that on that... So there's that. So what we've been kind of talking about and what I'm getting that really motivates you is transparency and food and being at choice in what you consume, would you say that's...
0:35:44.0 S2: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I said, I think... Again, when we started going down this road of our heart behind doing this, the more that I realized, Man, transparency and Sue is challenging 'cause there's a lot of green washing in terms of marketing, and then finding too that is nutrient dense is just super challenging, so... Fine is like it shouldn't be like me, but it really, it really easing and food like I know, but it's not a...
0:36:23.4 S1: No, yeah, I don't even walk into standard grocery store, it's so rare I walk into a standard grocery store, every time I do, I feel like I'm in an alien world and I feel like there's no actual food in the store. What am I doing in here?
0:36:37.9 S2: Now, I'm not gonna say I'm completely next to grocery store because there's things that sometimes I need to get catch up or I don't know, seasoning or whatever, but at the same time, I can boldly say that I would say majority of our food, I know the source that it's coming from... And I've seen the soul that it's being raised in, which I think a lot of people can't say that, but I would just encourage people and they're like, Look for that. 'cause it makes a difference in your health. It really does.
0:37:10.1 S1: Yeah, so in a moment, I wanna ask you more about how the heck you're farming, doing everything you do, running a business and raising five kids, and what it's like raising five kids on the farm, and you've got a recipe for us that makes it easy to cook for a big family. Yeah, in a minute, but before we do that, I wanna take a quick break and talk about sponsorship of women in food, our local Yelp Buffalo, New York has been a wonderful supporter of women in food programming almost since the beginning video series in 2020. Did you know that you can search specifically for women-owned businesses on Yelp, Support your local women-owned businesses by patronizing them and then writing Yelp reviews, download the Yelp app now and use the filter for women-owned businesses to find your local women run businesses. Our best sponsors are the growing community of people who are passionate about food and supporting the diversity of women's voices in our food cultures, those sponsors are predominantly people like you, rather than companies that wanna sell you things, if you're not a sponsor of women in food, I invite you to become one by joining the women in food community, that's really all it takes, join the community, access this community of food lovers like yourself to share an additional resources beyond this podcast to feed your curiosity and love of food, while also supporting the global community of women in food businesses, in this community, we share recipes, swaps the latest news and articles about food, and celebrate one another and our goals and our priorities and our passions with food.
0:38:55.5 S1: Many of my podcast guests are part of this community, so it's also an opportunity to access them and see what they're up to and ask questions, this is what the women in food community is all about, so whether you're looking for a recipe or a women made food product or a new restaurant, or help with your garden, this community is the place for that resource, so if you're interested in sponsoring this podcast by becoming a woman in food community member, go check out women and food dot net for community, so Paige. Okay, you're running this farm, you're building a business, your entrepreneur, you do a ton of education on social media, you do advance... How do you raise five kids also...
0:39:43.6 S2: I feel like my kids are just as much a part of the equation as I am, they really are, we could like... They're a huge help. At the same time, it's a never-ending... People say that I educate a lot, but I think it's more... So this is just a way of life because I have five kids. I find myself... What I learned through parenting, and I'm not trying to be a parent master, but what I have learned is that when I explain the why to my kids, it really acts as a... Reinforce it so that they have the knowledge to understand what's happening, and I think that it makes them have more respect for what we're doing, so I find myself maybe lecturing all the time, but again, it's whether it's for safety reasons or really just because I feel like Hey, this is information that I'm learning. You should learn this, and they really do make me better in all of it, so I couldn't do a lot of the things that I'm doing without their help because they really are... They are my why. They are...
0:40:58.3 S1: Do you have a good example or a story of something you've taught them recently or shared with them that maybe surprised you or really spark to them?
0:41:12.4 S2: Well, I would say that I think every time that I cook something, my kids are right there like acting like their mindsets... You mentioned that I love the show America's Hesketh and I do. And so Mikey will sometimes watch it and then take notes and then like a mom, a Atherton American's Tessie, I think we could try this out. Which they love all the desserts, but my daughter saw this one for a roasted Italian chicken, or maybe it was a Herb chicken, and so we made it and then at dinner she was like, Oh, I can just taste the texture, and this was just cooked so well, and I like like, how hard does she... Eases years old, And I like, Are you... Are you a chess? I'm really trying to understand what's happening here, but yeah, so we've been kind of doing this experiment with... 'cause we process our chickens on farm, and I had chefs tell me like, Hey, when you put the chicken and refrigerator opposed to freezing it, it makes a big difference, and I've read this, I read the science behind it, but again, because normally we kind of have this like, Okay, we gotta do this, this, this, and this.
0:42:33.1 S2: There's really not a lot of lag time before we are phrasing opposed to just getting it done and then laying a chill, but this time, this last time that we process, we got two new commercial fridges. So I was like, You know what, I'm gonna put these in the fridge and I'm gonna cook them and see if we can test the difference, and that's when I did the herb chicken that my daughter was like, I can just taste the texture and the difference here and I'm like, Oh, okay, I think you've just been listening to me too much, but there really was a difference though, in terms of the breakdown as well, the cook time, of course, but when opposed to the chicken being process and then being frozen and then undoing it and then just cooking it fresh, so I hear all your kids now... Yeah, so I have a 10-year-old and eight-year-old, a five-year-old, a three-year-old and a one-year-old.
0:43:29.2 S1: Oh my goodness. So how do you incorporate them into the farm... What are some examples of what they do with you?
0:43:37.6 S2: Yeah, so they help me with a lot of things. So whether it's collecting ed, that's kind of the job for my boys is to flat beds, and then they also have to package the eggs, which we don't wash, our EDs, sometimes move and some with water to get dirt off of them, but that's the extent of washing that won will do... And then the growl help with milking, with looking, it's really just some kind of standing there and giving the cows eat alphabets, but that's really helpful because that's a task that I don't necessarily have to do and that they feel like they're really being a part of things. Yeah, and then when my husband, typically the hogs are his terrain, but whenever he has time, it has to do more things with moving limbs or doing fencing, our boys will help with that, and the girls are always helping me in the kitchen, so whether it's processing day and they're helping bag chicken feet or something like... It's really a family affair from start to finish.
0:44:51.2 S1: Have you ever had any of them like, not wanna help? How do you handle that? Oh
0:44:55.5 S2: Yeah. Well, so we never wanna be parents that are... Someone was a US that before, are we trying to make our kids farm, is that kind of the goal of all of this, and I would say No, I'm not necessarily rooting for my kids to be farmers, I think if they wanna do that, that's cool. But I think that then again, learning... I never knew any of this, I never knew about any of these things at all, and ultimately, I would say what we're trying to teach our kids is to be responsible people that actually have compassion and empathy and for the world around them. So I would say that those are lessons that even if my kids don't wanna do things, there is still at the end of the day, I would say they're the charge for us to let in our kids, so whether or not they wanna help us, if Chick speaks and water, when they come in from the postal service, it's like, Hey, this is what has to be done, because this is a life that we're caring for, and we are stewarding this together, and we just address it and get it done, but I think just attitude is always...
0:46:13.8 S2: Well, commentator.
0:46:15.6 S1: A friend of mine, I was out of his farm, he raises mostly hogs and his kids help a lot, is two older sons for sure, and he was saying that a front of he or someone he knew was saying that he grew up on a farm and he left it because growing up on a farm, the kids were always made to do the crappy jobs like mucous stalls or things like that, and so my friend make sure that the kids get to do the cool stuff as well as hard stuff, and I always... Before I even heard that, I always do that with helpers or interns on the farm, I do that with myself, like, Alright, if I'm gonna muck the stall out, then I'm gonna plan some baby plants, that's my reward is to do the happy stuff and the cool stuff and after I do the crappy stuff... Literally crappy stuff. Absolutely, but he says that has instilled a love of it in his kids, instead of seeing it as a chore that has to get done and a repulsion to it, and not wanting to be as an adult now.
0:47:25.4 S2: And I'm not opposed to paying my kids for things either like if they do a great job and show Brian worth ethic, it's like, Okay, hey, you know, do you earn five bucks and you earn this... So I think that teaching our kids to work is something that maybe a lot of kids don't even really have that opportunity, but on a farm, there's endless opportunities for that.
0:47:51.4 S1: And so the first one, this opportunity for all of us to work on a farm always. Always true too. True. And for our listeners, you can see more of the kids helping Paige and your husband on the farm on their social media, I love watching the social media, and something else you've shared on social media recently that I wanted to touch on a little bit is the farmer's table events, which I tell us what those are.
0:48:23.4 S2: Yeah, so we had this idea of... 'cause I took... A lot of people love a good farm to table dinner. But one of the things that I realized was missing was the farmers actually kind of being at the forefront of those dinners and being able to connect with the community to show a face book who's raising your food and how it's being raised and the behind the scenes so the farmer's table was really birthed out of, I would say, me being a farmer, and then this love for connecting with people over food and with cultivating community, so I was like, Hey, I wanna be able to host dinners where it's... The things that are being served on the plate are raised locally, you can actually go visit the farmer that raises better at squash, and of course, all of the proteins are typically from us, so the eggs, the dairy, the beats us, but it would still be a collaboration with other farmers, where we are gathered together, and a lot of times we actually had farmers attuned the dinners, but yeah, just to say, This is who we are, and I'm very grateful for checks, I know that we probably couldn't pull this off without them, but farmers are foods too, and...
0:49:50.9 S2: Well, I am, so I think...
0:49:53.5 S1: I feel like I need that on a t-shirt, farmers or foods to... That's really my truth. I choose what I grow because it's like what I wanna eat or cook with, so... Totally, absolutely.
0:50:09.2 S2: So that is the farm retable. And so far, it's been really great. We've had a great response, we're gonna have another one this month, and I have some really cool ideas of just more ways to really engage with leaders in a community so that they can really just have this experience of talking with a farmer and seeing a farm and asking those questions about how their food is being raised.
0:50:33.5 S1: So do you prepare the food or do you... No, I bring in help to either on that for a couple of farm-to-table dinners on my farm and way too much on a Estate.
0:50:48.5 S2: I actually thought about doing just maybe a small group of maybe like, I don't know, five people. Look, I could totally hit that, but the dinners that we've been hosting have been like 25, 50 guests, I definitely am bringing in chefs for that, 'cause that's a little bit much I'm assigned. I think I could, but I would also miss the point of the dinner, which is talking to the people that are in it, that I Oasis preparing the next course and in the kitchen and then carrying the dishes out and didn't get to socialize and get to host is don't actually talk about the food and be part of the community conversation, so...
0:51:28.2 S1: Yeah, that was my first one. After that, I was like, Yes, I'm hiring serving staff. I'm a shaft. Yeah, I will still talk about the food a lot and do a tour of the farm and all that stuff, but I can't cook it also... Yeah.
0:51:41.8 S2: But again, I think 'cause your presence is needed because what I'm finding is there is a story, not just behind every dish, but behind every... Every element. Yeah, there is a story there. So whether it's about the struggles of farming chickens throughout the season, or you know how the cows kept jumping to Fisher's always a story to be told, and I just really like the... Or love the concept really, of being able to have that as a platform to engage, so that's... Yeah, so that's what we're doing.
0:52:18.1 S1: Well, what I hear with the farmers table events and you're doing that, is it's like a return to some of the earliest... And this is based on some things you shared with me, not in those podcasts, but in our conversations as well, is that it's... To me, that sounds like part of the full circle for you, of returning to that big long table your mama had in bringing people together and seems like a value that was instilled in you early on that I would... Ping forward, which is beautiful, beautiful. So even though you don't cook for the dinners, you do have a recipe for us, and this is how you probably make a really nice dinner for your big family... Oh yeah, effort when you're running the farm and doing all the things at once, what... Absolutely. What is it that you're gonna share with us?
0:53:17.0 S2: Yeah, so this is just a roasted chicken, really simple, rope would say a staple in our house, everyone loves our Arista chicken, and I probably have served this too many friends because it's just a classic... It's like, it's a good one.
0:53:36.9 S1: Yeah, and I think, I don't know about you, but I think every person, every family who rose chicken has, there's so many techniques and ways out there, everyone has their favorite beside... Well, there's definitely the way... My mom always post a chicken that I love it, uses ingredients I would never eat now, so I don't any more, but it was like, that's the only way we let her roasted chicken 'cause it was our favorite, I was like, you can't try another flavor, you can't use different reason to different herbs. I gotta do it this way. And we have the same with a brisket first kit pot roast, when she does it, she's a one's making the same recipe for as long as I can remember in my 40s, so a lot of years. And every now and then, she's like, Can I please make it different this time, we're like, No, you gotta make a designation to this recipe in... But it's the best. Mom is the best. So what is your mom's best... That's what I'm gonna call it. A hosted hoisted bird.
0:54:42.1 S2: Alright, so you wanna start with, of course, a good quality bird, so our birds are raised on pasture, and typically the size, and this is for anyone who's wondering like, Well, how many of a chicken you're talking about, I would say Shoot for about four pounds. That's a good size for our family, 4 to 5 pounds is perfect, and a tip is, if you catch cocaine batch, cocky me and you cut out the back bone, so we actually... If you listen to episode, the episode with Jenny, she and I went on a whole tangent about Pathak poultry were talking about Christmas or dinners.
0:55:28.4 S1: And we went down that road, so... Yeah, so the episode with Jenny... I'm trying to think of what the title is, I can't think of the episode number now in the title, but for my listeners, there is a whole... This huge discussion on Path cocking, but if you don't wanna go back and listen to it, our brief description of PATH cocking is
0:55:51.1 S2: It is to remove the back from the bird and press it down so that at least flat. So that's fine. Yeah, it's me a subscription.
0:56:00.5 S1: Yeah, it's... What it does is it... It cooks more evenly. It does pretty much faster... Yeah, 22 pound turkey this year, which was really hard to cut the back bone out of that big one, I used hardware shares and it took... I was shocked. It only took a couple hours, like a hit, pound turkey would be... What, five hours. Six hours, something like that, yeah, yeah. It's been like two or three hours. That was it.
0:56:33.0 S2: Yeah, like 15 minutes for every pound. Yeah, that would have been a long time. Well, yeah, the path packing is the way to do always, so I sat pocket and then I will base the bird in large, so you could totally do better, but we raised hogs, so normally have a lot of fat on his, if you had rendered lard, it's one of my favorite things, because chicken tends to be lean, it's a very lean protein, and so that's kind of one of the things where if you ever look at recipes or it's like, Oh, an ad under... The reason why is because your chicken will dry out very quickly, so if you base the bird and large, that really helps to keep it nice and moisture, and... I'm sorry. And helps to keep it nice and moist in people that were at nine. And also prevent it from drying out. When you're cooking
0:57:27.0 S1: It, do you put the Learn on top of the skin or do you slide some of it between the skin and the meat?
0:57:33.2 S2: So what I'll do is I will heat it so that it's kind of... So it's not solid. At this point, it's almost like a Halloween. I'll make it so that it's a liquid and then I will just pour it over the bird 'cause it's just easier to manipulate that way, but if you didn't wanna do that, you could totally Sather. And one, I've done that as well, you just have it at room tip, but
0:58:01.6 S1: Just to use butter and I'll slice it and then pull up the... At least on the breast, pale skin and stuff, slices of butter under there, so I have this weird loaded looking bird before I put it in the oven, but then it melts into the me under skin is... Yeah, on off the top because the skin kills it there...
0:58:25.7 S2: Yeah, I definitely make it a point to get it. So loosen up the skin, just to make sure that I get it in all the crevices, you kinda wanna give it a bath, right. Diabase with the fact that is your friend. So I will do that first, and if I am really on it, I will brine the chicken before this, so I'm coming in a HASSELL ride the chicken prior, which are bright, I'm sure you probably talk to people about brining chicken, that it's a simple salt solution with the bird covered and water, but if you don't do that... That's okay. So
0:59:02.8 S1: We've not talked about brining before, so brining, which you can do with a number of meats, it's basically marine and are soaking in a water and salt solution for a period of time... Yes, and then drawing it off, upgrades
0:59:18.7 S2: And then your bird is ready for the fat, right. So the better of the large, which I do laryngitis, the writing helps break the chicken down as well, but it also gives it more flavor, so when you bring in, especially in a salt solution, the salts will eventually help to permeate the skin or at the skin, but the meat, it'll tend Erie it, and then I'll also add a lot more flavor, so some people will add sugar to their brand, I don't do that, but people say that it helps with rounding or Crispin up the skin. I have found that just a simple salt satin is more than enough, and
0:59:59.8 S1: Some people bring pickling in me as a kind of brining also hit is, so some people will add some spices into the brain solution to add flavor as well. I've seen that. Yep.
1:00:11.7 S2: Yeah, but it does add more flavor, so... Okay, so then at this point that I'm ready to see on it, and adding a fat prior helps for the seasoning to adhere really nicely on the bird, so I will just do basic salt pepper. May, I will also add Erika for color really? That for like like it, garlic powder, Rosemary and time, if I have it on hand, and that's it, and the... So
1:00:47.1 S1: You could do any erinaceomorpha or whatever, I would say. Because you're gonna roast this for a little while, delicate herbs, like you mentioned, Rose, Mary time, those kinds of herbs which can withstand heat of it better... Absolutely, Regina would be another one, but your Mint or tarragon or Dell or those kinds of things are not as robust for the heat on... When do those... Wouldn't do those same forever sprinkle on at the end.
1:01:22.4 S2: But if this is a slow row, so you're not gonna want to do anything like bill, in my opinion, because it's not really gonna be all... If you were doing a sauce, then... Sure, but not for this, so... Alright, so then at this point, member seasoned, it's shiny, got a nice color on it, but it's not look, so I will place it in the other, and I like to bake in stones, so like mentioned the brick. That's a great, great pain to cook a chicken in, but if we don't have that, Mayo could just do a regular roasting pan, but stones are just my go-to an... Yeah, so like a baking stone or a call, and maybe as a pizza stone, and the stones that I use or like dishes, there's kind of like a deep dish stone, so similar to the bread, like pots that we were talking about earlier. That's a stones, but stones conduct he very well, when you're making things like culture especially, and it really does offer a nice even cook, and then when you move it off of the sea and you're resting it, it still is just a nice even...
1:02:42.0 S2: All the way around. So as I prefer ones, but... So what I'll do is I'll place the birds in the stone, outcome it loosely with foil places in the oven and cook time is typically 15 minutes per pound. So if you are making about a four-pound chicken, that's about 60 minutes, and I do the slow, so I make on 350, if you were pushed for time, you could probably do 400, but I typically go with the 3-50 mark just 'cause... Right.
1:03:11.9 S1: And that's still spots, if it's path cocky, put it in the stone, or do you lay it out on a sheet?
1:03:18.0 S2: I still... Yeah, same thing. So spacetime, just to me, like you said, Briar, it helps it to cook evenly and it helps it to also faster, cook faster and again... And if you're doing an actual baking dish, this is where if I... Again, 'cause I'm on the farm, but I'm doing other things. I do add onion in there, I'll add some potatoes and their carrots, just something to help add to the meal, because when your chicken is gonna cook down would then end up having juices yield from a lard as well as just from the bird itself. So you'll really end up having a nice sauce, really from what's left over, so when you add those on-ins or carrots in there, anything extra, it goes really well as a topping for the bird as well as over any type of sin is that you have. But when you cover that with foil, I'll just kinda cook everything nice and evenly, and it's a great quick like... I don't even have to think about it. Neutered loves. Yeah.
1:04:31.2 S1: I mean, there's so many... I love resting poultry every way imaginable. I've done all the ways, and one of my more recent favorites is Mark Batman's caster and skill I have you ever tried to do? I have a attestation. So in that one, after my listeners, you heat up your cost, Erin skill to 5000 and you must up, and then you prep your bird and you could do the same prep that Paige gave us essentially. Yeah, and then you put the burn right in the hot skillet and then dropped the temperature, but what that does is the skill, it retains all that He and cook the dark meat, so it cooks evenly with the breast and then you don't drive the beast waiting for the dark meat to cook, and you get all the dripping and then what you do is you take the burn out and then you've got everything in that pan, you could just put that pan right on the stove and trying to do... So yeah, a Paige, I'm like, I'm like, I gotta defrost one of my birds for dinner for right now to an... I have a vested... A chicken in a while, it's gonna...
1:05:36.0 S1: It's time now.
1:05:37.8 S2: Oh, it's the best.
1:05:38.8 S1: It is a... Let's comfort food, for sure, something like that, something that
1:05:45.0 S2: It is, and don't throw away that back from the batch pack either because you might need it for your brother to stop.
1:05:54.5 S1: Don't throw that away. In my firm, I have a livestock guardian dog. So that's her treat. Yeah.
1:06:00.5 S2: We've got plenty of those two...
1:06:02.1 S1: Yep, yep. She's a very happy camper when I rose poultry in Pathak it. 'cause she gets that part, and then save the carcass after you cut led the meat off and make a stock with that as well. Absolutely, yeah.
1:06:16.9 S2: Just keep your little bag and your freezer, I've got a bag right now that I need to put in a tape.
1:06:24.0 S1: I think that's one of the biggest things I've learned with farm life is just how to use and re-use every last bit I can, yeah.
1:06:32.4 S2: There's no way. We really try to practice no was when you know what you're doing, it's really cool to just be creative and do more things like, Oh, I think I can do this. Oh, what about those? Dairy is another thing I've been learning, likening the using the weather way, it's like, Oh, I'm gonna soak rice in the way, 'cause then I can... That'll add more flavor and nutrients and easiest Gardner.
1:06:59.2 S1: The way it goes right into the guard and my tomatoes love it, that's how I... Recording calcium deficiency, which is a common... To meet a problem, I just... A way, I'm like, Oh, I gotta make her got a cheese 'cause I need way for the tomatoes, we counter that a batter and then use the butter, everyone in the house knows if my made better that night, biscuits are coming the next morning.
1:07:21.0 S2: That's me too, when I make better. It's like, Oh, well, I guess, or having this case count, you know that...
1:07:29.5 S1: There was something I read about hogs in Italy, where they make their gut to cheese and then... Or they make whatever multi-realities or whatever choose they make, and then you can actually make some Ogata out of the way from that era that over goes to the hostages to the things. Yeah, I would then make the Parmesan in the person and then you got your whole meal...
1:07:59.7 S2: Absolutely to our pigs are so happy on the days that I cream or the days that I have a way for them, which is very often now that we have dairy cows, so they are happy happy hogs because they are stored with their fermented feed, with the milk, it's the best, it's the best.
1:08:17.8 S1: Yeah, yeah. So I'm curious then last question, Is there... What woman inspires you? Oh man, my mom.
1:08:28.1 S2: That's like a no-brainer. NomCom mom, a particular why she raised 14 kids and still has her sanity and looks amazing, and not even that, I think that... I know that her goal in life is just to raise kids that had a sense of accountability and purpose, and just seeing her constantly giving of herself... Is she someone that I aspired to be like? And yeah, I hope that I can pass that down to my girls... Yeah.
1:09:04.6 S1: Well, thanks, mom, if you're listening, yeah. Thank you so much, Paige for sharing your chicken recipe and your story, a little bit about how you raise your children with the farm, I just appreciate our whole conversation, is there one thing you would love our listeners to take away from what we talked about
1:09:26.1 S2: Today? Well, I guess if you're... Awesome. In the same boat with me, if you're a mom starting a farm or just a foodie and trying to balance all the things, I guess I would encourage you to just take it one day at a time. That's something that I'm constantly trying to remind myself, there is grace. And if you have a community like Preston and don't try to do everything on your own. Yeah, that's really all that I would have to add, and hopefully it's encouraging to someone is in that same season of life.
1:10:03.6 S1: Thank you so much, Paige, for sharing your stories and recipes and wisdom with us today. To all our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode of women in food and got a bit of inspiration for your next meal. I'm sure many of you are gonna be roasting poultry in the next few days, a last request, if you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you are using to listen and give us a rating and review. It's a simple act. That helps us a ton. Once again, thank you for accompany me on this delicious adventure, join me around the table for our next episode and get ready to eat!