#18 | Courtney Buckley: Food, Business & Intuitive Leadership + Beet Ice Cream
In this week’s episode, I talk with Courtney Buckley of Your Mom’s Donuts. Courtney shares with us her story of learning how she leads best as a mom, wife, entrepreneur and farmer. Our conversation wanders deep into dairy sheep farming, kids food television, how she started her donut business, and learning to lead life from simplicity. Courtney and I dive deep into the feminine intuition and how it can be a gift as well as a challenge when trying to lead a business. We also get real about the challenges of our times — finding clarity in the chaos, the difficulties managing other people, decision-making from the feminine and soooo much more! Along the way, we have a few fun food conversations from different kinds of animal milks to ice cream making, maraschino cherries and how she creates the unique, fun flavors for her donut shop. Learn Courtney’s recipe for making Spiced Beet Ice Cream —yes, you read that right— beets + ice cream!
The Recipe starts at: 56:12
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Your Mom’s Donuts Social Media Links: Facebook and Instagram
Kids’ Food Programming: Tiny Chef Show, Waffles & Mochi, Jr. British Bake Off
Maraschino Cherry Recipe
NY Times Ice Cream Recipe
Smita’s Cookery Dessert Spices
Get Business Coaching from Missy at: WomenInFood.net/WorkwithMissy
Become a member of the Women In Food Community at: WomenInFood.Net/Community
Missy’s Farm Website: CrownHillFarm.com
Missy’s Business Coaching Website: SpiritBizPeople.com
Beet Ice Cream Recipe
INGREDIENTS:
2-4 beets -- juiced
2 cups heavy cream
1 1/4 cup combined milk + beet juice
3/4 cup sugar
1 tablespoon vanilla extract (or fresh vanilla – 1 pod scraped)
Spices such as cardamom, ginger, and cinnamon to taste
METHOD:
Prepare the ice cream mixture: In a bowl, stir together the cream, milk and beet juice. Add the sugar and whisk until the sugar is dissolved, 3 to 4 minutes. Test for graininess by tasting a small amount of the liquid; it should feel smooth on the tongue and there should be no sugar visible on the bottom of the bowl when it is stirred or spooned out. Continue whisking, if necessary, to ensure that the texture of the finished ice cream will be smooth. Stir in the vanilla and spices to taste
Chill the ice cream mixture: Put mixture into a bowl and place a piece of plastic wrap directly onto the surface and on top of the bowl. Refrigerate for at least 3 hours or up to 24 hours.
Churn the ice cream: Prepare an ice cream maker with at least a 1-quart capacity according to the manufacturer's instructions. Remove the plastic wrap from the cream mixture and bowl. Pour the well-chilled cream mixture into the mixing container of the ice cream maker and freeze according to the manufacturer's instructions. The timing will depend on the type of machine and the temperature of the cream mixture.
Store or serve the ice cream: The ice cream can be served immediately, directly from the mixing container, but it will have a very soft consistency and a mild flavor. For a fuller flavor and a firmer consistency, use a rubber spatula to transfer the ice cream to a plastic freezer container. Cover tightly and freeze until the ice cream is firm, at least 3 hours or up to 2 days. The ice cream is at its best when served within 12 hours of freezing. (Philadelphia-style ice cream tends to become grainy more quickly and is best eaten within a day or two of churning.) Makes about 1 quart.
In our commitment accessibility, we’d love to offer polished show notes to help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. However, Women in Food is still a startup with limited resources. So we’re not there yet.
What we can offer are these very imperfect show notes via the Scribie service. The transcription is far from perfect. But hopefully it’s close enough - even with the errors - to give those who aren’t able or inclined to learn from audio interviews a way to participate.
DOWNLOAD THE TRANSCRIPTION or READ IT BELOW
0:00:04.4 S1: Welcome to another episode of Women in Food. I'm your hostess, Missy Singer-Dumars. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, food, business, and the feminine. Each episode, I invite you to sit down with me and my interview guest as we dive into this intersection to spark your food curiosity, share a favorite recipe, and give you some fun food explorations along the way. I'm inspired by these women, farmers, chefs, bakers, cooks, writers, and food makers who all bring their passion for beauty, nourishment, community, pleasure, connection, and deep care to others through food. These are women who advocate and take action towards increased food awareness for themselves, their families, and their neighborhoods. Before I introduce today's guest, I have one request. If you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're using to listen and give us a rating and review. It's a simple act that helps us a ton. Thank you so much. So today, I'm excited to introduce to you Courtney Buckley. And I have to be honest that we recorded an entire interview months and months and months ago, and there were some audio problems. And I'm thrilled, extra thrilled that we get to have the whole conversation again and go somewhere totally different because it's a year later, life has changed, we have more to talk about.
0:01:21.4 S1: But let me tell you about Courtney first. She is the founder, owner, and creative spirit behind the North Carolina based donut shop, Your Mom's Donuts, where she offers these crazy creative square donut treats with all kinds of wild flavors that use her local seasonally inspired ingredients. And I have to say, I've followed her Instagram for quite a while. And if you follow it, you will be drooling over these donuts and her breads, and wondering when she'll start shipping them countrywide. She comes from a farm background and brings that passion for homegrown food to her community through her shop, which is now actually multiple shops, like most businesses, and we're going to dig deep into this. Hers has many stories of the ups and downs along the way. But what I've learned is that she's always kept one thing top of mind in guiding her decisions, her family. She homeschools her three kids while running the business and her horse farm. I don't even know how she does all of that. And she's got visions and plans for the future. So I can't wait to talk to her share her stories with you. And here's the deal, we are gonna get real on this conversation.
0:02:29.2 S1: It's been a tough year for both of us. And we're gonna talk about it and be real about it. So Courtney, welcome to women in food with a huge complicated introduction. I'm so glad to talk to you again, hang out with you. Yes. And share our stories with our listeners. So glad to be here.
0:02:45.8 S2: Thank you. Oh, man, I'm good. I'm tired. Right? Like there's so much going on.
0:02:50.7 S1: Yeah, yeah. Tired, especially this late. I know for me as a farmer this late in the season. That's definitely a lie. All right. When is it winter yet? Please winter come. It's like, no, I'm not ready for winter and winter come.
0:03:02.7 S2: I was gonna say even in the south because you know, I live in Charleston, South Carolina the winter still brings a little bit of anxiety with it less less hours in the day it feels like and less I have never been good at taking that as rest time. So it always just feels like not enough time to get everything done.
0:03:19.0 S1: I have a feeling in general, you're not good at taking rest time and we're gonna talk about that, right? Correct. But before we start, I just like to get a little bit into your story and how a food lover, passionate farmer, artist becomes a doughnut maker. So give us a little piece of your story.
0:03:39.7 S1: Okay, let's see how quick I can make this. I'm actually grew up in West Palm Beach in a city so very not farming and I've had horses my whole life. That was like my gateway drug into farming. And so when I graduated high school, I started training, I rode horses and did farrier work, which is horse hooves and ended up in Charlotte, North Carolina area and I worked for this family as like a nanny slash horse trainer and they homeschooled other kids and they homesteaded and that I was addicted like immediately when I when I met them, they had one goat and like some chickens and a horse and a few years later when I stopped working for them, we had like a herd of pigs, we had a couple of wool sheep, a big herd of goats, chickens and I did everything from you know, I always said clipping chickens wings to baking bread from grains with their kids and it was like the ultimate learning experience. And when I went out on my own, I started farming. I went into dairy sheep, I got a flock East Friesians, I also was really into critically endangered livestock.
0:04:46.7 S2: So I had glass shawls, spot hogs that I collected from all over the country and we raised some ducks for me, I had white face black Spanish chickens, again, critically endangered and a couple of Jersey cows just for my own use. And of course, as I know, you know, if there's no money backing farming, especially livestock can get really messy and really hard and we were young and a little naive and ended up having to sell everything and when our rental property had some mold issues, and we couldn't just relocate everything, you know, we had 40 acres we were renting and the farming there was okay, but the house became unlivable and we sort of had to just figure something else out really quickly. And craft donut shops were popping up all over the country. And my ex husband had gone to culinary school, he started the business with me. And I ran the bakery for Earth Fair for a while. And we both knew that farming and food was like, we had to do something with with that, but didn't have the land access. So your mom's donuts was born. How was that?
0:05:47.6 S1: Wow, you just got the whole story. And one thing I you know, what I noticed the most was how when you started with that family, they had animals and then by the end, it was we had the animals. So it sounds like you kind of became part of the family, not just an outsider.
0:06:05.5 S1: Oh my gosh, I mean, it was it was amazing when I met them, she was pregnant with their sixth kid, which was a son and they have nine they ended up with nine kids. So just to sort of give you and none of them are like twin sets or anything. So to reference how long I was really a part of their family, you know, the parents of more than one occasion, went out of town for a few days at a time and I at like, you know, 23 years old was like the one in charge of the kids and the kids were so awesome. I mean, like, I remember one morning, I was working at farmers markets at the time to for a friend of mine who raised hogs and I had to bring the kids with me. And so like, we're up at like 430 in the morning, getting all the animals milked and fed and cared for to get in the car to load up to drive like an hour to go to a farmers market. Like, we all just made it happen, you know, but it was like, it was a good intro into family life and farm life.
0:06:55.5 S2: And yeah, I had a big influence on who I am now.
0:06:58.5 S1: Yeah. And I want to point out you didn't just suddenly open a storefront donut shop. There were some steps along the way, knowing your story a little bit. I know you were working on helping farmers distribute.
0:07:11.9 S2: Yes. Yeah. So when I stopped working for that family, I sort of I was living in a horse farm at the time sort of helping out in exchange for boarding my horses and living in quarters. And I started a business on the side, working with local farms to help them get their products into restaurants. So I was sort of like a local food broker. And I would literally just like cold call chefs all day and farmers and be like, Hey, can I, you know, help get connected and I'd make product lists and send it out to the chefs. They'd order through me, I'd order from the farm, I do all the delivery and pickup. I mean, there was like exactly zero dollars in that business, but it got me a ton of connections and it was awesome. I loved it.
0:07:53.9 S1: And you learned the business. I know like when I started working with restaurants, I had no clue like how much does a restaurant even buy? How much do I need to grow for them? How do they buy? When do they order? Like just all those questions. How much do they need each week? Do they need it every week? You know, like all those questions. And so doing something like you did would help you know that. So when you're ready to start your own food business, you had a lot of those answers. Yes, totally. And then when you started making the donuts, you didn't start right away with a shop. You were at farmers markets. Is that right?
0:08:28.7 S2: And delivery. I mean, you know, right. Yeah. When we left the farm, my oldest daughter was six months old. And we literally had a commercial kitchen space we rented. My ex-husband go in and fry the donuts in the middle of the night. And then I would literally pick them up at like six in the morning with my baby. And we would go deliver to people's houses. And then we got into a couple farmers markets. And we started doing that. And then so that was October 2013. And by July, July 12 is our anniversary. So July 12 2014, our shop had opened. And in May of that year, I like we signed a lease. And two weeks later, I found out I was pregnant with twins.
0:09:08.3 S1: Yeah, oh my gosh. And part of why I wanted to point this out is that like the road to opening a shop or a food business has steps. And, you know, a lot of us may have a vision of the final thing. And then there's versions beforehand that don't necessarily require as much capital and investment and all that stuff. I mean, to take orders online or, you know, phone or whatever and drop them off at people's houses. You know, you just need to find a commercial kitchen to use for a little while, but small minimal investment. So for anyone else who has an idea like a donut shop or something else, that's, you know, you can start start with what you have.
0:09:48.7 S2: Yeah, because we had nothing. I mean, there wasn't, you know, like we didn't have money or other jobs or anything. I mean, we were lucky that we had some livestock to sell. We were done with, you know, we were closing the farm down, but and we refinanced our used cars that we had, you know, we had both had old cars and we were able to go to the bank and refinance our cars that had been paid off. And between our livestock refinancing the cars and everything, we had about $15,000. And that not only built the business, but also started the brick and mortar shop. I mean, that was that was it. You know, you said, I see these businesses that come in with like six figures saying that that's that's the minimum. It's like, hey guys, wait, there's another way to do that.
0:10:33.3 S1: Not necessarily. Yeah. And all the while having kids dragging around with you, like, yes. Say more about how that shaped how you shaped your business.
0:10:47.7 S1: Oh, my gosh. I mean, there's there's like pictures of me. My kids were they've grown up in my shops. They have been a staple forever. There's like pictures of me. Probably my favorite donut shop pictures. Picture me behind the bar with my twins, one wrapped on my back and one wrapped on my front. And of course, I mean, like the donut coffee bar, not like a bar bar. But like serving, that's how I used to serve donuts. Like my customers knew my older daughter would be like sitting on the counter counting change while my twins were strapped to my body somehow. At one point on Saturdays, I hired in somebody to help me in the donut. So she would come in the donut shop and assist with them. So I could like help on a busy Saturday without, you know, if they needed somebody else to give them attention. But, you know, I mean, not to get into it too much, but you know, I nursed my kids and I nursed my older daughter. She was almost four before she was weaned and my twins were almost three and they were just with me all the time.
0:11:40.9 S2: You know, like they they I wanted a business that my children could be a part of.
0:11:47.9 S1: It is so interesting to hear you say you hired someone to help with the kids in the shop so that you could run the shop as opposed to you hired someone to run the shop so you could spend more time with your kids. Well but they were there too, right?
0:12:02.5 S1: So like, we were all in the same location. It was like the only way that it felt comfortable was especially in the very beginning days when I didn't really know what the shop would evolve into, right? It was almost like I didn't know who she was yet. And so I really wanted to make sure that it was who I wanted her to be. And so being there a lot felt really important. My kids, they liked it. We actually for the longest time had like this little toy corner in the front. So we were like a super family friendly donut shop. I mean, we used to have baby wearing meetings from like the baby wearing organization used to come to our shop once a month and have made set up and have like their meetups at our donut shop. And so you probably still have families that come as a family.
0:12:49.3 S1: Oh gosh, but we closed our dining area in 2020 when COVID hit so that we were like pickup only and like now the project is trying to get it reopened. Right, right. Yeah, I'm seeing that a lot of places. Just being a kid who grew up in a family retail business, it's true. I mean, I just we would play in the basement of the store and upstairs and it was a big furniture retail store with multiple stories and would just like play hide and seek on the kids furniture and whatever it was like what's the coolest newest stuff and my mom needed us out of the house. My dad would take us to the store and we'd help him inventory on a day the store was closed or whatever, you know, whatever he needed. And it's definitely a place I grew up in and I treasure those memories. So I'll just tell you your kids will be grateful. Yeah, I hope I hope my kids feel the same way for sure.
0:13:47.8 S1: I mean, my oldest daughter, she's nine and a half now and I mean, her favorite thing in the world to do is baking. So all she wants I mean, like she's literally like right now. Oh my gosh, have you all seen that there's now I just saw last night and watch the first episode on Netflix of a junior bake off which is literally her goal. Oh my gosh, it was so much fun to watch. I just watched the first episode.
0:14:12.7 S1: All she wants to do is like be on a cooking show. That's like her goal. So she's right now just okay, we're gonna stray into kids cooking shows for just a second. If you have access to Nickelodeon Nick Nick Jr. The tiny chef show just launched. I love the tiny show. Okay, we'll have to look that up. And it's like it's a cooking show. It's a tiny chef, animated stop motion animated cooking show with other things as well. But what I've seen everyone loves it. I don't have access to Nickelodeon. I really want to figure out how to watch it. But for our listeners, I'll put we'll put links to both those shows and their websites in the show notes. For anyone else who wants some fun kids food oriented shows. There's another one. Oh, crap. I can't think of the name. The one that Michelle Obama launched. That's also about food. What is it called something in mochi? Oh, I don't know that one either. That one's also really great. All three you can follow on Instagram and waffles and mochi. That's what it's called. Okay. And they go through the grocery store that when I've watched a couple episodes and they learn about different vegetables and they meet all different chefs from across the country.
0:15:25.8 S1: And it's awesome. It's super fun. Yeah. So there's some great kids food shows out there these days. Totally a tangent, but totally not a tangent because I think one of the things like I mentioned in my intro is that you have found a path where it's not family or your business. It's both. And yes, you know, that's what we're talking about here. So yeah, so I want to go back to let's do some food geekery, more food. Besides children's food geekery. You briefly mentioned the sheep and I know you've hinted at me about wanting to get back into sheep and being a small scale shepherd as myself. Of course, I want to talk sheep and you raised dairy sheep, which you don't hear about much in the United States. So tell us a little more about that choice and now I loved my dairy sheep.
0:16:17.1 S1: One thing I learned with farming, unfortunately, you know, you know this I'm preaching to the choir, but there's not a lot of money in farming, right? Like everybody says that we raised the food and nobody wants to pay for it. But right. But there is money if you can find a value added good. So when we were looking into farming, it was like, what could we do? What is not, what is a non-existent right now in sheep's milk ice cream was what sort of came up. Sheep's milk has much higher fat content. So you can make ice cream with whole milk and you don't have to add heavy cream like you do with cow's milk. So wait, and I want to pause for a second for our listeners who are not farmers to say value added products are products that you make from what you grow. So like in my case, it might be tomato sauce or, you know, jams or like all those things are called that pickles. Those things are value added products. So I just like to make sure these are things I didn't know, you know, like I didn't start out as a farmer.
0:17:14.8 S1: So I'm like, what's a value add product. I never heard that term before, even though I'm a business woman and you know, so I like to know. So yeah, so sheep's milk is a higher fat content than both cow and goat. Is that correct?
0:17:28.4 S2: And it's easier for us to digest. So it it's got smaller protein molecules. It's a lot of people who are like lactose intolerant or can't do cow's milk can do goat and sheep, right? But goat milk has a gaminess to it. Sheep milk has none of that. There's no barnyard to sheep's milk. And so I personally, I want to like goat's milk so bad. I can drink it straight out of the goat, but as soon as you pasteurize it or turn it into cheese, I hate it. It's got too much barnyard for me.
0:17:55.4 S1: I can't do it. Yeah. I can't get into goat. There's one local brand of goat cheese that I like that does not, it's not extra pungent and I still use it very sparingly. But yeah, I cannot get into it. Sheep milk has none of that. Wow. So why is there not a lot of sheep milk in the United States?
0:18:15.9 S1: Because there are, so I always have said that goats are like dogs and sheep are like cats, right? Like, and I'm a dog person. I have six dogs. I much prefer most goats personalities, but I actually had my East region chief and we had a flock of gosh, I don't know by the time we sold everybody probably close to 60, including babies. I had two that were super friendly, you know? I mean like in general, they're not like as much fun to raise. So I think for small scale farmers, I'm totally getting something here because I'm a cat person. I've had to learn how to be, I love my two dogs and they are great workers out on the farm and like, I still don't feel like I'm totally a dog person. But I'm absolutely, I mean I'm a Leo so I can just speak cat naturally. And I love the sheep and I have no interest in goats whatsoever. Right. Cause, and I want, I want to like goats, right? But I had two sheep in my, I had one sheep named Olive and one named Allison. Olive, I could walk out into the field and call her.
0:19:15.6 S2: She led the sheep in every day by my side. She was my favorite one, right? Like because she was much more, more dog-like and they have tiny udders. Milking, like hand milking a sheep is nowhere near as convenient as hand milking a goat is. I think, you know, I think these are like some, I'm, I'm hypothesizing as to why people don't raise them. But these are some of the things that I think stop like families from, you know, like a family goat's no big deal. That's pretty common. Having a family sheep almost requires commitment. I hand milk some of my sheep and it's like a joke. I mean, there's no like real utter like you have for a goat or a cow. So I know you said that you were milking one of your sheep. I was milking one of my sheep this spring cause she had mastitis and I was milking the other side that was not infected.
0:20:05.5 S1: So that wouldn't get infected or overfull. And that was my, I just like figure I I've watched people milk animals. It's a little hard, but I feel like my girls had decent size udders. It didn't feel that. I mean, the hardest part is that my girls are not like halter trained or anything really well. And so getting them to answer and she was, she was, you know, in a lot of pain with the mastitis. So she'd, you know, flinch a lot. Um, but I was milking the good side into the bottle for the bottle baby for her baby. Sure. Um, and it, I was surprised, like my hand would cramp cause I was surprised at how long it took to empty her all the way out. I know, especially for small udders.
0:20:47.3 S2: Um, but you know, I don't know. I think that it's just not ever been like in fashion. I'm using air quotes here. Um, to have sheep is just something that hasn't caught on. And honestly, I really don't see any wholly logical answer.
0:21:03.1 S1: Not anyone I know who gets sheep milk, they use it for soaps. I don't see them do anything else with it.
0:21:09.2 S2: Sure. Or cheese, right? Like people do, you've got fedas and stuff. Some people do some, um, sheet milk cheeses, but nobody does sheet milk ice cream. And it's really quite delicious.
0:21:21.3 S1: I bet. Cause I'm so, do you still need to use eggs for a customer, the custard base with a sheet milk ice cream?
0:21:28.1 S2: If you're going to go custard base, absolutely. But you could go either way. Right? Like, I mean, just like with cow's milk, you can do an egg free ice cream that still has a richness to it. Um, and I have done both with sheep's milk. I actually had a flock of my flock of sheep ended up in Raleigh, Durham area. And years later I went to visit them and ended up getting some sheep's milk and bringing it home and making some ice cream with it. And it was like the happiest day of my life. Cause you can't just buy sheep's milk. It's not like I can go to the grocery store and be like, Hey, I want to make some sheep's milk ice cream tonight. I'm going to go buy a gallon of sheep's milk. Like there's nowhere.
0:22:00.2 S1: That's true. Although, you know, I have seen camel's milk, believe it or not. Yes, it's me too.
0:22:07.2 S2: But why is camel's milk easier to get your hands on than sheep's milk? Sheep naturally live here.
0:22:13.2 S2: So you, okay, we're just going to like geek out about sheep some more because I can't help it being a local shepherdess. Um, the, you said that you had East Friesian sheep. Why that breed? Those are the Holstein of sheep. They're the highest producers. They are bred to be milkers. If anybody in this country has milk sheep, that's what they have.
0:22:39.4 S1: Okay. Are they, what's their wool like? Are they good for other things too? Yep. They're going to be a dry purpose. You can eat them and their wool is usable, but it's a lower grade wool. It's not going to be like a super high end wool. Um, more like carpet wool and stuff is what I was told. We never really did anything with it. We are sheer came and shared our sheep and then took the wool because we really had nothing to do with it. Okay. Yeah. That was sort of part of the situation. So for our listeners, there's usually three like, uh, in farm animal stuff, that was a technical term, farm animal stuff. We talk about like single purpose, dual purpose, and I guess triple purpose. And so it's like different, different breeds are better for different things. So like we're talking about here, the Friesians are better for milk. My sheep are long wool breeds, so they are really for wool. Um, and could be considered dual purpose for me as well. Um, although my sheep pretty much, except for extra rams pretty much stay as wool sheep.
0:23:42.8 S2: Um, yeah. And they're not going to be like, you know, the sepholx or some of the really big meaty sheep that you get. I know that there's lots of sheep specifically bred for that.
0:23:51.7 S1: Um, yeah, my sheep are one of the largest breeds I think. Cause my ram has got to be well over 200 pounds. Wow. Yeah.
0:23:59.2 S2: The East Friesians aren't, they're not giant sheep like at all. Um, but they do, you know, though frame out, you can absolutely, they're, they taste as good as any other, as any other lamb. They're just, they're like their carcass size isn't going to be as big as some of the other guys.
0:24:17.1 S1: And you alluded to with all your animals, choosing animals that are on the livestock conservancy list or say more about that choice. Um, yes. That even means, so I sheep are the only thing that I didn't have that were critically endangered.
0:24:34.4 S2: I had like, I really love the idea of critically. It's probably like the underdog in me, you know, that really just like loves the underdog. So, you know, you have these livestock breeds that, um, are old school and you know, a lot of them are, have so many good qualities, but, but the quality of like just mass produced producing as quickly as possible, isn't one of their strong suits. So I had glass shrolled spot hogs, which are amazing and delicious and can like survive off of foraging. They're excellent mothers, you know, they have a lot of wonderful qualities, but they're slower growing. So they're not as in fashion as say like a Yorkshire for commercial production. So they have become a, they were critically endangered when I had them, but it's been, I don't man. It's funny. I'm a staunch Berkshire fan for hogs. I'm a staunch Berkshire fan. People around here, my area are more into the mangalistas. I like the mangalistas that they're really fatty. So it just depends on what you want to do with it.
0:25:33.7 S2: I just think the Berkshires are so buttery and amazing. Have you ever had a glass shrolled spot hog? No, you're going to have to send me some. We have a ton of Berks down here. We have a ton of Berks down here. Like that sort of Berks, some Tamworth, we see a lot of Duroc, you know, which are all awesome breeds. But I chose the glass shrolled spot hogs because not only do they marble really well, but they're really manageable. They're incredibly friendly. They're incredibly friendly hogs. So for a family farm, they were such an ideal fit. I don't want animals that I don't want to be around. Like for me, that's huge. That's a huge part of it all.
0:26:11.5 S1: Well, and you're also thinking about your kids safety and all that stuff, which as I alluded to all your decisions are inspired by having kids. Oh, totally. Yeah. So yeah, and I do the same thing. So when I give tours of the farm, we talk about I grow heirloom vegetables and heritage breed animals. So same idea, same reasons for both things. It's like keeping the diversity, both vegetables and animals. For animals, they're better at foraging. They're better at parenting. They're friendly. I always look for breeds that are cold tolerant for my region and hardy enough. And we need something heat tolerant. Exactly. And then same with vegetables. And to me, it's like keeping diversity alive is important part of the farm. Totally. So, you know, diversity in our food, diversity in our people, diversity in our animals. It's like it, I don't know, I don't want to live in a world where everything is homogeneous and exactly the same. Created for production, not for, you know, aliveness, not for flavor, not for beauty, not for anything else is like, I don't want to have this cookie cutter world where everything is tasteless, but look, that's quite depressing.
0:27:34.9 S1: It's very depressing. It feels like some kind of post apocalyptic movie or something. So I'm going to take a short break, and then I want to dig deeper into this past year and, you know, looking forward from here and how we get through the hard times as we were talking about. And you have a recipe for ice cream for us since we've been teasing everyone with ice cream. But before we do that, I want to take a quick break and share a bit more about how Women in Food is supported. As you know, I care a lot about food and land, and this includes the success of food and land based businesses. I believe that sustainability goes beyond the land to how we grow ourselves and how we grow our business at the same time. I've noticed that many folks in the food and land spaces have fantastic concepts and strong passion and deep care, but still struggle to market and run their business in ways that can make the impact they envision while also providing for themselves at the same time, just like Courtney and I have been talking about. I always say that most farmers I know are great farmers, but dread or avoid the sales and marketing.
0:28:46.1 S1: Well, I'm the other way around. Farming has always been my learning curve, but I love and know business really well. Besides hosting this podcast and running my farm, I'm a business coach, having coached hundreds of entrepreneurs from across the world in a range of industries to mindfully grow their businesses. So if you're listening to this podcast as a food or land based entrepreneur who's looking to what the next phase of growth for your business is, this kind of coaching could be for you. If you'd like support in this way, go to my website to have a 90 minute session with me. The website is womeninfood.net forward slash work with Missy and I'll put the link in the show notes as well. I want every listener to thrive and particularly land and food businesses to thrive because honestly I believe your business success is all of our future. Once again, the link is womeninfood.net forward slash work with Missy M I S S Y our local Yelp Buffalo has been a wonderful supporter of women in food programming almost since the beginning video series in 2020. Did you know that you can search specifically for women owned businesses on Yelp?
0:29:56.4 S1: Support your local women owned businesses by visiting them and then writing a Yelp review. Download the Yelp app now and use the filter for women owned businesses. So Courtney, let's talk about this past year because we just had a quick catch up before we got on the recording and it was like, man, it's been a tough year and you were saying the same thing and our um, how are you check in was like, yeah, I'm really tired. I feel like I say way too much honestly. That's all right. That's all right. Um, and one of the things we were talking about was, um, staying motivated and inspired in the work we do.
0:30:37.7 S2: Yeah. Um, uh, do we want to like hash out the last year and in a quick version, we can give us a quick version of the last year for yourself.
0:30:48.9 S1: So, so, okay.
0:30:49.2 S1: So in, um, gosh, I think it was May of 2021 I opened a shop in Charleston. Uh, we were open for about six months, you know, we had set up our Charlotte team. I had staff up there. Everybody got raises. It was like really exciting. This is what we're doing. And so my focus turned to Charleston. Uh, the biggest godsend ever was we were, we were sharing a kitchen with our landlord. Things got really ugly. Uh, uh, it was a beautiful lesson learned of humanity and my, my skin's gotten a little tougher, but we ended up leaving that situation, which allowed me to refocus on Charlotte. And I went back up to my Charlotte shopping. Um, it was a disaster. It was, it was not okay. And, um, it was sort of like mom left and the teenagers took over. And so, um, by January, my path of my staff was gone and we sort of tried to patch together a management team with who was there and, um, probably was not, not the right decision on my part. And so we have recently hired in a GM now, but, um, this isn't, isn't my passion.
0:31:52.8 S2: You know, my, my passion is community and people and, um, food and farming. So to now try and just be like a people manager and a spreadsheet analyst from, you know, three and a half hours away from my business has been, um, really it's taken a toll on me and we have, you know, more and lease negotiations in Charleston to reopen something. And it's hard to even consider doing it, you know, I mean, I'm really sensitive. I happy to admit that. And, um, sometimes I feel like maybe really sensitive people don't like managing a team of people might just not be my strength.
0:32:33.8 S1: I've had a really, it's definitely, um, this year has seemed more challenging with handling people here. So, and I feel like, I feel like it's the state, at least in America. Um, cause we do have listeners worldwide, at least in the United States of, um, American culture and where it's going. Yeah. I think that it really is. I don't know, like, am I allowed to cuss on here? Is this like, okay. All right. I just, I feel like it's really like a fuck the man culture right now. And like, even though I'm a very small business, very engaged with my staff on a daily basis, I still feel like I'm viewed as the man. And it's a really, really hard thing. It's been a really hard thing for me to grasp. And it's like, y'all, I'm just a human just like you guys. And I admit my flaws and I know I'm not a perfect boss for sure. And you know, like I would happily unpack all of my weaknesses right here. I've got no problem with any of that. And, but I feel like the view is still like, what can we get out of her?
0:33:33.0 S1: And, and I really am just like, I'm just, I'm just a human, you know, we, we talked about it briefly, but it's like when you're a mom, your kids don't see you as somebody with like needs and feelings. And I have wonderful kids who are very empathetic and loving and great, but at the end of the day, I don't think they see my humaneness and I don't want them to have to hold that, you know, but I remember as an adult, like seeing my parents as being human and being like, holy shit, they're just people too, you know? And so now I feel like that is the same in business, right? Like I'm not a human. I'm some kind of like machine that is supposed to just like crank along and, and I'm not. And it's been two years, two and a half years of, of fires to put out and oh, I am, I'm dead. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's, I feel like I've seen this sense of this stronger sense of entitlement. Yes, very much. And now I've seen a number of articles about, um, Quiet quitting, quiet quitting. And what I was most upset about was articles to other business leaders on how to quote, deal with quiet quitting and how to avoid it and how to see it coming.
0:34:50.4 S1: And I'm like, how about you just pay your people appropriately and don't expect you like, how about you just treat your people well for starters. What happens when you do, what happens when you pay your people? That's where the entitlement problem comes in. And, um, you know, it's, it's been an interesting thing. And, um, well, and instead of like this quiet quitting culture, how about you just actually quit and go find everybody's hiring, right?
0:35:13.5 S2: So find another job, just go find another job. Why is the acceptable answer to quiet quit and not fully give, give all you have in your job. Okay. So you're getting taken advantage of and not getting paid appropriately. Quit everyone is hiring. Like you can go get a better job right now. It is an employee's market. And as an employer, when you're, you know, I mean, my GM's made $65,000 a year and I paid $20 an hour to my, nobody makes less than $15. So I've always in a donut shop, tried really hard to be a very fair boss. I'd even have a bonus structure. Hey, y'all, we hit this number. That's our break even point. I'll split anything over between you guys. Like I have always tried really hard to be financially really fair. And what I have learned is it doesn't matter.
0:36:03.3 S1: Yeah. There's something more, I feel like we're in a home just off the cuff now as I, my heart tunes in to the state of humans is like, we're, we're like, I've met individual people who are seekers, you know, and I've had times in my life where I'm a seeker and I feel like we as humanity are seeking something, but we don't know when you're a seeker, you don't know what you're seeking. You're just seeking. And I think that's part of what's going on. I wonder if that's part of what's going on is there's, there's a subtle layer of, you know, humanity as a whole is seeking like what's next or where do we go from here or how do we turn this boat around? And so there's all these tries at different things. Yeah, no, I think, I think you're on to something for sure. You know, cultural experiments of sorts, I guess. We're getting into deep conversation here. Right. But if the cultural experiment could get off of the quiet quitting thing, that'd be amazing. That would be really nice. Yeah. But it's a seeking for fulfillment. I mean, I think we're seeking for fulfillment and then as a farmer and the past six years living on a farm and shifting my life, I feel like that the, the, the seeking fulfillment, fulfillment, okay, this is Missy on her soapbox.
0:37:19.6 S1: The seeking for fulfillment is creating, seeking more complexity and creating more complexity where in fact what I found personally is a fulfillment comes from simplicity. Simplicity. Yeah.
0:37:34.3 S2: Oh man, I couldn't agree more. I think which is part of like my struggle right now is like, I'm just like, okay man, walk away from everything, get a couple of sheep stick them in your backyard and just be here. You know, I mean just be present and be with them. Just be, just be, just be, yeah. It just doesn't have to be so complicated.
0:37:55.0 S1: Yeah. It's, it's interesting as I look at the food and land space, I feel like it gets more and more and more complicated, but then I know these small farmer, you know, like this time of year here where I am, we're canning the hell out of everything and that's a very simple old process, you know, and there's a way I look back to look forward, you know, to simplicity, drying things, canning things. Fortunately I have electricity so I can freeze things. But you know that like this is what we'll eat in the winter. This is what we have, you know, what it's how I think about.
0:38:32.1 S1: In, in my bones when you're talking about this, I feel called to being back there. Like every cell in my body feels the most at home when I'm present on the land. We're so busy. We're so inundated with information and what we should be thinking that nobody, it's almost meditative right? Canning is meditative. You're, you're stopping your thought process. You're doing something repetitive. You're just, you're able to just be in what to, to provide your own body nourishment. Like, I mean, it's so simple and so amazing and so lost. And these slow processes are not just body nourishment because the slowdown of the process is heart and soul nourishment, mind nourishment. You know, I am waiting for the canner to be done canning to remove the jars. I sit and read a book, you know, like sip a cup of tea and sit at the kitchen table or I actually wash the dishes. But like, you know, I there's days where I could stay in the kitchen in my big house all day and not leave the kitchen and it's fine.
0:39:36.7 S2: That's like my favorite. That's my favorite. When I get too busy to be in my kitchen cooking dinner for my family every night, that's when I know that like my systems are not functioning anymore. I have to slow down and I have, I'm like really obnoxious. Like I want to eat what I want to eat every night. I don't know what it's going to be tomorrow night. I don't even know what it's going to be tonight to be perfectly honest with you. But I have a stock freezer and, and if I have to run to the market or whatever to grab what I need, that's fine. But it is a religious experience for me to cook dinner, right? Like I want to possibly some nights pour myself a glass of wine and I don't follow recipes. I just want to taste and add and taste it. Like the whole recipes. I can't wait to cut into my apple pie that I made yesterday because I so winged it.
0:40:20.2 S1: I had leftover pie dough from something else and I am not, I don't make a lot of pies. It looks cool. I made a nice crust. It looks really nice. Um, but it's a, might be on the dry side. We'll see. I didn't put any liquid or butter or anything in the pie. So I just counted on the apples to do their thing. Um, right. That's how I function. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so I guess the question is, I think we've, I think as women, we feel all this differently. I agree. Totally agree. Yeah. Well, how would you describe that difference?
0:40:58.9 S2: I just think that it's out of the brain and into the heart, you know, I think that men are really good at, um, using just the brain, right? The logic. And I think for, for me personally, of course I can't speak for a woman, but I feel like every decision has to be made with heart and gut, even down to cooking. Like I instinctively put even like donut shop and when I'm in the donut shop and I'm making frostings or creating recipes or whatever, there's no brain action happening. It is all my gut and my heart and I'm following that. And I feel like my business runs the same way. I cannot make a decision when it's a thought based decision. I freeze totally. It's like everything has to be gut following. And maybe that's my problem is there's just like so much chaos going around that like my heart and my gut, the brain can't be quiet enough to find what the next step is.
0:41:50.7 S1: Do you have ways for yourself that you get to that quiet space when you can?
0:41:54.9 S2: Um, honestly, my horses are that for me, you know, I know we sort of touched on it, but I run a horse farm here as well. Um, my horses live on the horse farm and I manage about 20 horses at any given time. And, you know, everybody's always like, well, why do you do that too? It seems like you're busy enough. But honestly, that's my meditative process. Like I feed them five days a week. I'm out there every morning and, and it's the best way to start my day when I'm there. You know, I'll walk six to eight miles just bringing horses in and out and checking on animals and whatever. And just the slowdown and being with the animals. It's that is what clears my brain.
0:42:36.8 S1: Yeah. I actually find cooking does for sure. Like I love cooking. It's like, it's, it's a meditation. It's a time like you have to be present. You cannot be like accidents happen if you are worrying about the future or stuck in the past when you're cooking, like you have to be meditative is probably a way better way to say it. I mean, I said it was a religious experience, but what I probably mean really is meditative, you know, like it calls you into being present. And like, I feel like I got my friend, my dear friend just posted this thing about, um, she was hiking in Rocky mountain. This was a quote from Waylon Lewis's book. It's never too late to fall in love with your life. And it says in Buddhism, beautiful views are considered spiritually important, even sacred for in their perspective, they instantaneously wake up our minds to the present moment. They dissolve monkey mind and everyday depression and spark ideas and insights. Views help us remember that life is but a dream, popping us out of our solidity and reminding us of the dreamlike vivid, playful nature of reality. And I feel like that when I go out on my farm, I feel like that the animals I feel like that my favorite time of day on my farm is like, kind of the sun has mostly set.
0:44:01.1 S2: But there's still the remaining light. The animals are all fed and tucked in. I like to walk around the property sit on one of the benches, look out at the you know, I'm up on a hill. So I have quite a view of often like Erie and just all the vineyards around and everything. And it's that same kind of view may not be lofty Rocky mountains, but it's that same experience of being in nature and having that which zooms us into being present. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. Yeah, big time. And the farm is beautiful. You know, I mean, obviously a very different view because I'm in Charleston, but we have all these live oaks with moss hanging off of them. And it's like really idyllic. And so we have a big pond on the property. And it's not it's magical. See, I'm the opposite of you though my favorite time is when the sun's coming up. So I like walking horses in in the morning. A lot of times there's like a heavy fog and the trees on the moss and the animals are all like super happy to see me because it's breakfast.
0:45:00.7 S1: Yeah, no, it's funny. It makes my soul up. I like the morning to it's it's funny. I spent a lot of years before being on the farm as like a night owl. So I still struggle sometimes to get to sleep early enough to get up early. But when I do get up early and I'm alert, I love it in the morning. Like I walk outside and the livestock guardian dogs run to me actually the dog and the barn cat run to me together. That's super cute to greet me in the morning tails wagging and chickens are coming out the ducks are quacking in their stalls waiting to be let out and I and the sheep are just usually chilling and chewing their cud and it's like the sweetest time to visit them and all the mommas and daughters each hang out together which is really sweet. But yeah, I mean, I love the morning when I have it but like getting out of bed in the morning I'm cranky once I'm up and out. I love it. I love it if no one else is in the house or no one's awake yet. I like sip my coffee at the table watch the oh yeah read the newspaper whatever it is and relax read a book.
0:46:04.1 S2: You know, those are my yeah, I do like the slow mornings are my favorite. But there's something about the the evening it's it's for me. I think it's the evening light because the sunsets over Lake Erie and cast those beautiful long shadows across that sounds amazing. Yeah, we'll have to visit each other's farm someday. I love that idea. Yeah.
0:46:26.4 S1: So let's go back to let me think about this for a second. Yeah, let's go back to food Geekery. You ready? Yeah, I'm in talk about let's talk about ice cream because I know you have a recipe for ice cream for us whether or not you can access sheep's milk. And I love I love making ice cream. I actually still have in my freezer some I'm homemade Maraschino cherries and then how did you do that?
0:46:52.0 S1: Oh, that's fun. I will send you that recipe. I will put a link to that recipe in my show notes for everyone else but I homemade you have to be able to I ordered online a bottle of Luxardo cherry liqueur like the real stuff. Okay, you know, yep, liquor. And it's really simple. I mean, you just you pit the cherries sweet cherries, you make the syrup which is a lot of sugar, the Luxardo and some tart cherry juice and then put the cherries in the hot liquid and let them sit and then once they cool down, put them in a jar in the fridge and that's it. Oh, that's amazing. I see I would love to do that for the donut shop to oh my god that would be great for the donut shop. But you have to cook enough of the alcohol because trust me that looks sort of the liquor is strong. Strong. Yeah, so you got to cook enough of the so but this most recent round like some of my cherries had gone bad and I was like, Oh, no worries. I've got frozen whole cherries I'll put in because the recipe said you can use frozen cherries but when I did it, the frozen cherries were mushy they weren't like firm holding their fur.
0:47:51.4 S1: And so then I was at the farmers market and there was like one farmer that had the very last sweet cherries. So I bought the sweet cherries and I thought okay, I'm going to strain the liquid out reheat it. Pick out the few fresh cherries that were in that original batch and toss or do something else with the frozen mushy cherries and then do a new batch. So I did that and then I had all the mushy cherries. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna puree it and I'll make cherry ice cream. So that's that's kind of what happened.
0:48:16.0 S2: Oh, it sounds amazing.
0:48:17.1 S1: And I do a custard because I have all the duck and chicken eggs I do duck egg custard base when I make and I don't have access to sheep's milk. So it's cow's milk and and duck eggs and the maraschino cherries and I threw some chocolate chips in there at the end. So obviously, I'm a lover of ice cream. I don't care if it's summer or winter or anytime you can eat ice cream. So yeah, so tell us a little bit about ice cream and if you could share a little if you know share a little of the like there is some I guess chemistry ish stuff. Oh, man, I'm not I'm not very good at like, legit science.
0:48:58.7 S2: I like to feel things and make it I mean, it's Yeah, I mean, I'm just over the years the reason so the reason why I've gone to a custard base is it certainly keeps it soft in the freezer.
0:49:08.3 S1: And yes, it lasts a lot longer. It lasts a lot longer. The egg yolk making a custard base. This is for all of our making customer base I found it Yeah, it keeps it a good consistency. When I've used a gun you have a silky it's silky Yeah, and it's skippable like when I've used and it suspends more like the chunks of Yeah, will suspend more because it emulsifies the the if you're going to use milk I found like you have to experiment with the milk to cream ratio because if you get too much cream then you have ice cream that has that like filminess in your mouth when you eat it and if you have too little cream it gets rock hard and crisp you know the water crystallizes crystallizes which Yeah, I would rather have the filmy fatty and that's why like most ice creams that I like that Yeah, and that's why most ice creams that you buy in the store usually have gums and things like that.
0:50:02.0 S1: Yes, in them, but you don't have to use gums to make a really good ice cream. No, oh god, no, we don't.
0:50:08.9 S2: I mean, it'll just last a lot longer with the guns to you know, I mean, fresh ice cream in the freezer, even with egg and all of the goodness. You're just not gonna have a longevity that you would otherwise see I think the machine I don't really worry about longevity because I see I am like I want a snack. So if I eat ice cream, I have like a spoonful of ice cream and then like I'm good to go. I want like one sweet bite at the end.
0:50:35.6 S1: How does ice cream last in your house with three kids? Tell us that Mr.
0:50:39.1 S2: Oh, um, first of all, my kid I'm the worst mom ever my kids like don't snack that they're like dessert is like a plum. So I know it's like weird. I own donut shops but moderation is the key life. I mean, they get they get my donuts when I go to Charlotte now but um, yeah, we're not a big sweets eater. I do have a husband who will plow through a pint of ice cream in the night. So that's that's really the concern not the children.
0:51:05.7 S1: Yeah, my mom I'm I'm not a big sweets eater except ice cream. That is my one weakness. If I drive by an ice cream shop I want I like instantly desire to stop and my my mom will tell you that I'm pretty much made out of ice cream with how much she ate when she was pregnant. Oh, I love that. We were always a big ice cream family. And here's a funny story about my dad just here's like weird stories. My dad you know, he would scoop ice cream for us after dinner for dessert and he'd be like, Okay, what size do you want? He'd be like, big, small, you want a small, medium, small, small, small, small, medium, medium, and my sister would be like the biggest one you got and he'd like take one little spoon out of the tub and then hand us a tub and we like cool. He's like, No, not really back and scoop us a proper amount. But like that was a common, you know, it was but in our house and where I grew up there was a local homemade ice cream shop that's still there. It was like a sweet shop like my parents went to it when they were teenagers.
0:52:04.3 S2: Oh, I love that there and it's still in existence.
0:52:08.4 S1: So we all have our favorite flavors there and everything. But so yeah, I think I love about ice cream.
0:52:15.5 S1: There is like no end in flavor combinations, right? Like it does the same thing for me that donut frostings do. Like donut frosting is so simple, you know, like 90% of our donut frostings are made out of heavy cream, powdered sugar, and whatever else right. And ice cream is very similar, like you have a solid base. And then you can, there's like the possibilities are endless. And it's such a instinctual thing for me, just like with the donut frosting, so I can make it and taste it, make it and taste it and keep adding things or whatever, as opposed to like when I bake, if I'm going to make a cake, like the processes take so long. And then like I have to bake, there's so much to it before I can taste it and then start all the way over ice cream is like I have instant gratification on flavor combos. That makes me really happy. Yeah. Yeah. Before you freeze it, you can taste it and be like, tweak this a little, tweak that a little bit. Totally. Oh, go ahead. The science.
0:53:13.6 S2: Oh yeah. I think your machine is super important. Like we didn't get into that too much. And obviously you can make ice cream with anything. You know, they make the hand cranks still, but I have found it so much easier to get a really nice consistency with ice cream if it freezes quickly. The longer it takes, the more it, like the ice get, it gets icier, right? Like the longer it takes, the more it separates in the machine and then the fat separates out and the rest gets icy. As opposed to if you have something that can spin and freeze really quickly, you can keep the homogenized custard that you throw in your ice cream machine.
0:53:53.6 S1: Right. Yeah, I know. The first ice cream machine I had was one of those balls that you just roll around that has ice in the middle and then you put the ice in it and my ex-husband and I would like go out on the lawn and roll it back and forth and it took freaking forever, but it was fun. It took forever. And then we upgraded to a big old school one, but it had the motorized churn, but it was like just a bucket with the canister and the motorized churn, which I still use and works fine, but you know, it still takes, it takes about 20 minutes at least. And you have to keep adding ice as it melts. But yeah, and also everything cold. So like I put the metal canister in the freezer 24 hours before I'm going to churn and freeze that. And then I'll make the cluster, the base the day before I want the ice cream and refrigerate that overnight. Totally. Everything's really cold.
0:54:48.5 S1: Yeah. And set up. Yeah. I broke down and bought an ice cream machine with a compressor in it last year. And it's been like super well, because I'm so bad at knowing what I want ahead of time. So it's like, I wanted ice cream and I would want to make it look right now, but if I had to like stick my equipment and stuff in my freezer and wait for tomorrow for it to happen, then I would be like, I'm over it. I don't want to do it anymore. So, so much for simple life. There are some conveniences that we love.
0:55:14.7 S2: That is. Yep. And that's one of them.
0:55:16.5 S1: That's one of them. Ice cream machine. The whole world is ending and you can keep one thing. It'll be the ice cream machine.
0:55:22.2 S1: I don't know. Or my immersion blender. That might be immersion blender. I use that for everything. I do want to say for our listeners though, you don't need a fancy machine to make some delicious for sure. I've seen so more and more recipes where you can blender it up. And, um, and another way to do it without a machine is to make semi-freddo, um, which stays a little lighter and fluffier, um, without you don't need an ice cream churn for that either. Usually. Right. Um, yeah, no, there's lots of options to do without.
0:55:53.5 S1: I have just found over the years with the different machines that I've had that the, the faster they freeze the ice cream, the less ice I end up with in my final batch. Right. So speaking of how versatile ice cream is and all the fun you can have with flavors, you've got an interesting flavor one for us today.
0:56:12.7 S1: Yes, we made a spiced beet ice cream. I love to use beets in dessert. Um, I'm actually not even like the biggest beet fan ever, except for in desserts, uh, beet juices like a it's beautiful. Beet ice cream is like really pretty and B it is delicious. Like added sweets and you know, some really earthy seasonings in there. You can also add things like, I don't know, a ribbon of cream cheese frosting. There's nuts like you name it and you could go wild with beets. Yeah. Do you have a particular variety of beets you most like to use for ice cream?
0:56:48.3 S2: I really don't. I've really only done it with red beets. You know, like I got some beets at the market before. I mean, this, this recipe was from a little while ago when I had beets in season and could grab some beets and I'm, you know, they sat in my fridge for a little while and ended up in ice cream.
0:57:06.1 S1: Yeah. I would be curious about making ice cream with the golden, the orange golden beast. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be a different color or, um, I, my favorite beets in my juicer are the Chiogia beets or the can, the candy cane beets that are red and white striped on cause they're a little extra sweeter and a little like I find the red beets in a juice form are almost a lot too much of the earthiness. Um, or the Chiogia is, you still have the earthiness, but it's got a little more sweetness so you don't get the bitter part to the earthy.
0:57:40.1 S1: I wonder if though in the frostings and, um, because I have done almost the same recipe as a donut, this is one of the beautiful things, anything I can make out of a donut frosting, actually part of this ice cream and other ice creams I've made is because I have experimented down here in Charleston with some donut flavor combos to send to the shops in Charlotte. And I was like, well, I do it. Maybe I should make an ice cream with this.
0:58:03.9 S1: Exactly. I'm like, I could either use this flavor combo and make a frosting that I have nothing to do with, or I can just turn it into an ice cream and see how it's going to work. I totally am feeling like there's a carrot cake ice cream in the making.
0:58:15.8 S2: Uh, actually, you know what my favorite carrot, um, I haven't done it in ice cream form yet, but I did a donut that was a carrot and time donut. And it was like really, it's when I actually put bacon on top because I don't know, I just wanted to and that flavor.
0:58:32.6 S2: I don't know. Cause I wanted to. Because I just wanted to, it needed some bacon. No, I love salty addition. We've done a lot. I mean, I've made donuts with blue cheese, so we do all kinds of what we make a pimento cheese donut. That's like a cult favorite. People love it or hate it. There's no lukewarm feelings on it, but we get, we get pretty wild. And, but they, we have done carrot cake donuts and stuff. And I know that a carrot cake ice cream would also be. Yeah. Like all the carrot cake spices, the carrot juice and then some walnuts. Oh yeah. And a ribbon of cream cheese frosting. Cause you need that part too.
0:59:07.4 S2: I would probably sweeten with maple instead of white sugar or in addition to white sugar. I think I would put, I actually would use a brown sugar. Brown sugar. Yeah. Yeah. Brown sugar. I love the maple messes up your liquid kind of. Yeah. But the brown sugar also, I love, this is super weird, but grittiness that brown sugar brings to the table reminds me of like the middle of a cinnamon cinnamon roll or something. And so I'll do the same thing in a donut frosting. I like a brown sugar. That's not fully dissolved. Like I don't want brown sugar to liquefy and melt. I want it to actually maintain a little bit of that crunch.
0:59:41.9 S1: Oh, you should play with maple sugar then. I love that. You get the maple flavor, but it's crystallized in sugar form. And I love maple. I actually, I made a, I love maple too. And I'm in maple country here. So we have a lot of maple and I actually made a soap, a cold process soap that was like maple spice. And I put both liquid maple and the maple sugar. So you had like a little bit of a sugar rub, you know, that sounds awesome. And then like all the cinnamon and spices. So I had that smell.
1:00:12.1 S2: It was really, it was really nice. You're making me hungry with soap.
1:00:15.7 S1: Making you hungry with soap. All right. So give us a basic process of making a beet ice cream.
1:00:22.5 S2: So you know, any base that you use would really be usable in this scenario. I usually remove, I juice my beets and I remove a little bit of whatever liquid I would use, but you really can't get too wild with your liquid removal because your beets have no fat. So you're going to start to, you would have to, I add more heavy cream. And a lot of times when I do something like this, I use half and half heavy cream and my liquid. So beet juice instead of milk. So then I'm actually replacing the fat that would have been in that liquid in the milk with half and half a higher fat than just plain milk, if that makes sense. And honestly it's so easy. Like you make your base, I throw in my beet juice and my spices and I put it in my, What do you like to pair with beet juice? What, what, what I'm sorry?
1:01:12.7 S1: What spices do you like to pair with the beet? Cinnamon, cardamom, ginger does really well.
1:01:19.8 S2: Anything that's going to warm you up is like my ideal scenario for beets. That's my favorite flavor profile.
1:01:27.3 S1: I need to send you, I have a friend here in West New York, Smita, who does beautiful, really clean Indian spice blends and she's got two dessert blends. That sounds amazing. Because they both have rose, one's rose zinger, so it has ginger in it. And for all our listeners, I'll put a link to her spices because you can order them online to be shipped. And the other one, they both, the other one is rose bloom and it has, it's like rose and cardamom and they're so good. And I love experimenting with them in different things. I've made custards, duck egg custard with them and they were so delicious. But I was thinking that would be interesting. You would probably really like that combo. I could see a Smita's dessert spice donut in your future. I love that.
1:02:19.2 S2: Oh yeah. We've done rosebud stuff before. So that sounds like that could really be something cool. Yeah. Yeah.
1:02:24.6 S1: I'll send some to you. Yeah. I'll send some to you. Cool. And so then just whip up the ice cream basically in your machine, whatever that is.
1:02:32.5 S1: In whatever, whether you have a ball that you're rolling back and forth or I don't recommend that technique unless you've got kids who can play endlessly. There you go. Just play soccer guys. Yeah. Yeah. Play soccer with this ball and don't open it. But, and for our listeners, the base, I have a favorite base recipe in your times has a really great, it's a custard base. So for those of you who do eat eggs, it's a great base. I always use as my base and then they give you lots of flavor options. And so they tell you how to, you know, what to take out of their base, you know, how to do the replacements. That's awesome. So even if I'm making a flavor, like if I was making the beet, I'd probably look at how they do coffee because that's also brewing a liquid and doing a replacement. So you can kind of wing it with other flavors besides what they suggest. Just find the flavor that is the like technique or style that's closest to what you want to do and do the same replacement.
1:03:29.6 S1: Yeah. I feel like once you have a solid base that you really like with ice cream, really you can go wild. You know, you start to play with some, you know, whether you are doing orange and adding zest and juice or, you know, herbs or chocolates or whatever. I mean, it's just really is there's that's why it's so much fun. There's so much. What have you found if anything about, I find it's interesting to me what the base tastes like before it freezes to ice cream versus after like some of them, the flavor intensifies and some of them it goes the other direction.
1:04:01.3 S1: I found most of them mild. Yeah. Yeah. Most of them mild, but I was really surprised about the maraschino cherry is almost too cherry is really cherry. Yeah. Um, and that was, that was surprising cause I put a lot of puree in and I could have almost doubled the base with the same amount of puree. It's super cherry. It's like super, I call it super maraschino cherry.
1:04:20.6 S1: What happens if you let it melt? I don't know. I made a milkshake with it and they added a whole bunch of milk and it was just right.
1:04:31.2 S2: Interesting. I just wonder if the cold versus like if you warmed it back up and not really made it hot, but like you let it liquefy if the warmth would bring up. Cause I feel like some ice creams that mild when they're frozen, it releases the flavor back when they melt. So I wonder if it would do the opposite.
1:04:49.5 S2: I don't know. Like I made it strongly flavored to begin with because I know they usually mild when they freeze and it went the other way and I was like, Whoa, that was really strong. I mean, it's really good. I've been slow. That sounds amazing. Like I want some of that.
1:05:03.4 S1: Yeah. Cool. So I wanted to go back to a conversation about just running a business and how hard it is and, and um, all that stuff. And you were talking about being in the feminine. You make a lot of heart intuition based decisions and I do that too. Like on the farm, I have to walk out there and see what's happening with the vegetables and I just know what to do. And so it's, I know for me, I found, I struggle with giving instruction to other people ahead of time. So I was trying to, the answer is, yeah, I don't know what the answer is until I get my hands in it myself, but that is not a sustainable model and it's not a scale model. And so I was curious if you found any ways, um, myself and our listeners on how to translate that intuitive sense into that's actually, you're like teaching me something about myself right now in this conversation.
1:05:58.5 S1: And there is a guy in, um, in Auburn, Michigan, Ari Weinzweig. I don't know if he owns Zingerman's Deli. He's like owns a bunch of restaurants out there. He's, he's super cool, but he has said he's an anarchist turned restaurateur. And I have always like found a little bit of me in that. I don't want to be told what to do and I don't want to tell people what to do. And part of that is I follow my intuition so much. And so even right now we're in the process of sort of doing small renovation in the donut shop so we can get back open to the public as far as them coming into stores, whatever. And, and my husband is so intent on getting ahead, like, okay, we need to retire. We need to do this. We need to, and I'm like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. I don't even know if we have the right group right now. We might have to hire people. How can you even be looking that far down the road? And it's like, that actually isn't that that's probably quite logical to start taking some of these steps, but it feels so against my being to not just take the next right step.
1:06:54.7 S2: Right? Like that's what I feel like I have to do all of the time. If I get too far ahead, it does. I don't know how to tell people what to do. I don't know to tell them what needs to happen because if the next thing isn't done, I really don't know what five steps ahead looks like.
1:07:09.5 S1: Yeah, no. Well, so the best thing I found so far is to, to a let people know that a big part of helping here on the farm is about learning those, what people, some people call soft skills. Um, but I talk a lot about like, to me it's about observation and curiosity is where the intuitive guidance comes from. And I talk a lot about that and I try and a seek people who are naturally curious and naturally wonder things. Um, and then foster that, you know, I think, okay, yeah, I can teach how to grow a tomato or whatever, but really I want to teach you how to sit in the garden and notice what's happening and then get curious. Well, and I think there's a level Like how do I fix this or what needs to happen? Or at least know like, okay, now I need to mention this to Missy. I noticed this thing and ask her what we do about it, you know, but I find that to me it's a solution focused mentality as opposed to problem focused, right?
1:08:09.1 S2: Like, so you say you want to find people who are curious to surround yourself with. And I agree with that fully, but I think a lot of it is finding people who are solution focused. Um, and I think that that's one of, one of the struggles that I It's about finding people who care about learning and growth.
1:08:25.1 S1: Those people who want to learn, they don't want to just show to a job and do a thing. And, and, you know, so I used to be a stagehand and we used to talk about, um, you know, that was actually my first career was working in theater and we would talk about, um, neck down jobs versus neck up. So like sometimes as an electrician, you'd show up to a theater and they want you to be neck down. In other words, it's not my job to think it's my job to be a pair of hands and a pair of feet who can do things and other jobs. It was like they, you know, it's a full body experience. They actually want me to ask questions and think. And so I think about it that way, you know, and so people who want to learn. And so one of my first questions when I interview is like, what are you wanting to learn from me? And you know, if they're like, well, I want to learn this specific set of skills, like sure you might learn that, but what I'm listening for are the people who savor learning for learning, you know?
1:09:19.0 S2: Oh yeah. That's, I mean, my kids are homeschooled for a reason, right? Because learning to me is a lifelong skill. I don't want them to learn things. I want them to learn how to learn things.
1:09:28.9 S1: Exactly. So that's what I look for in team is also is people, you just naturally have that curiosity. So I often in an interview will say, do you have questions for me? And some people are like, no. And then some people are like, yeah, I want to know about this and what's your story. And so I can tell who those people are that naturally curious, naturally wonder naturally.
1:09:53.2 S2: Yeah, no, that totally makes sense.
1:09:54.4 S1: You know, people who are observant and I try to share that too. So like one of the things on my farm is we hand water most of the gardens and pretty much every helper pushes against me on that. And it's like, I know it's the most inefficient thing, but it's actually super efficient because as you're standing there watering, you're noticing what's happening in the garden and you're seeing every single plant and like, oh, this is ready to harvest. Oh, this has a bug that's eating it away. So like even when you're watering and I've noticed I've had people who water and they don't pay attention to what they're watering and it's like, no, this is, these are your children. These are your babies. If we plant new seedlings or we plant new seeds, go the next day and check how your babies are. That's like, you don't put the baby in bed and go out for the evening and never check on them for three days again. It's like you check on them every five minutes. And I don't even have children. I've never had children, but like I just have that sense. And I think that's part of the feminine.
1:10:49.8 S1: Oh, totally. Totally. To me, it goes back to curiosity and observation, you know, observe what's going on and then get curious about it. And so I look for, yeah, no, the be curious part.
1:11:02.4 S2: Absolutely. I just think the be curious part has to come from a place of wonderment and positivity. You know, I ended up getting a lot of people who are stuck in certain ways. They don't want to change. There's no better way. It's, it's everything else on the outside. There's nothing going on internally that needs to change, you know, so it's that curiousness from, I like that from a place of wonderment and how can we better this and how can we improve and, you know, being able to come to me also with some solutions, right? Like, Hey, I saw this, this was eating the tomato plant. Have we tried this? Or I'm curious what you think of this. Like that is the ultimate.
1:11:42.1 S1: And not only that, I'm curious why you do it this way in the first place. Like, you know, I want that before I just am thrown solutions at me. Um, I know for me personally here, we're getting really deep again for me personally. It's like, if someone just says, here's how to do this better, there's a subconscious part of me that's like, Oh, I'm wrong and bad. And I saw it unsolicited advice is. Yeah. So that's not, first I want curiosity of like, why do we do it this way? Or why do you have weed cloth on the bed? It's like, Oh, well this year I had COVID and I thought I wasn't ever going to recover my energy. So I made some decisions early in the season and honestly, I might not use weed cloth again, except it has made certain things easier. Um, and we've had to weed a lot less, you know, but you know, ask me and then we can talk about like, is there another way to do this? And let's get curious together or, you know, go figure out, you know, how to do this and let me know. Yeah.
1:12:36.5 S2: Uh, so, yeah, I think the right team is key for staying inspired and staying happy, you know, being surrounded by people who live, I'm a big energy person. Like I can walk into a room and feel out what's happening before there are any words or body language or anything. You know, I feel it, I can't help it. It's just part of who I am as a person. And so being around people with like a positive, uplifting energy, I don't mean you have to be happy all the time. I have really bad days. I am exhausted a lot of times, but in general, I want to figure out why I want to fix it. I want to be excited about it. And I want to be around other people who feel the same way.
1:13:13.8 S1: Yeah. People who see possibility and opportunity rather than blocks. It's like, um, I had a colleague and teacher once upon a time who said, you can figure out why it can't work or you can figure out how to, how it can. And like there are two kinds of people. It's like, why can't I, or how can I, and I'm a, how can I person. And so I like saying, we were like, how can we, I really struggle with the, why can't we.
1:13:37.9 S2: And so for me, that's always just been solution focus versus problem focused. And the problem focus never goes away. You cannot train it out of somebody. You cannot inspire it out of somebody. You know, I have found that people tend to lie in one camp or the other and just being around solution folks, people in general lights the inspiration on fire, right? Okay. So maybe you have a little idea and then I can build on that. You can build further on that. We can solve this problem together instead of being like, well, we can't do that because.
1:14:06.8 S1: Yeah. Well, thank you for diving into this little tangent here. My next to last question is who are the women that inspire you most?
1:14:15.8 S2: Honestly, Jenny from Jenny's ice cream has always, I wanted, I was always like, man, I want to be Jenny when I grow up, but like with donuts, you know, she's like this little empire. I don't know. She's built this little donut empire and really like stayed true to herself and committed to her vision of what it looked like. No matter what anybody else said, I have never obviously met her or interacted with her, but she, um, yeah, she started at a farmer's market as like a little art student kid who was making ice cream and you know, really has like an empire now, you know, she has stores all over the country and she has somehow figured out how to run that. That is so foreign to me. I just stare at all of her stores and I'm like, how do you do that?
1:14:57.6 S1: Yeah. Um, so yeah, I'll see what I can do to find out anyone listening who knows Jenny of Jenny's ice cream, put us in touch. I want to find out the answer to that question too. So last thing before we head off, cause we've been talking a long time, but it's so juicy. I love chatting with you so much. I hope we get to visit each other's farm someday. Uh, yeah, for sure. For sure. You and the kids are welcome anytime. Come see Niagara falls, come visit, um, not spare time. And, um, but my last question is, you know, if we've talked about a lot of topics, we talked about sheep dairy and dairy in general, ice cream making donuts, being a woman leader, intuitively leading, leading, building a business for, you know, without a lot of capital. We talked about a lot of topics. If you wanted to leave our listeners, you know, what do you want our listeners to walk away with? Or is there one last, any last things you'd like to leave our listeners with?
1:15:56.6 S2: Yeah. Anything is possible. You know, we're like constantly told you can be a mother or a business. I mean, we are so, we are not limited. I am tired and like, there is a lot going on right now, but there have been times where all of these machines have run beautifully, surround yourself with the right help and the right people and like find what your dream is and then go chase it. My, my kids are home right now while I'm sitting on this podcast, they're, they're homeschooled and I have an amazing many who helps me tremendously. And I get to be a huge part of all of that because it's something that I want. Like I said, I also run a horse farm because my horses are hugely important to me and I have a donut shop, right? Like, and I am not any better than any other human being in the world. I just, I really want all these things and I'm solution focused, right? So like I wanted these things. And so I just, I found a way to make it happen. I would just really encourage anybody else to not feel defeated if they have a lot of big dreams and just make it happen.
1:16:57.7 S1: Gosh, Courtney, thank you for that final message. I feel like for the rest of my day and week, you've given me the inspiration sparked me. Maybe you sparked yourself in hearing. Yes, a little bit. Thank you so much for your wisdom, your stories, food, geekery, ice cream. I might have to go eat some more maraschino cherry ice cream right now. I know. I know. And I love that like we barely talked about donuts, which is fine. So to all of our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode of women in food and got a bit of inspiration for your next meal or dessert in this case. A last request, if you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're using to listen and give us a rating and review. It's a simple act that helps us a ton. Once again, thank you for accompanying me on this delicious adventure. Join me around the table for our next episode and get ready to eat.