#22 | Corina Akner: What We Learn Through Food Waste + Chickpea Mayo

Today I talk with visionary entrepreneur and food advocate, Corina Akner. We talk about how she uses concepts around food waste as a tool for community and business building through her Sustainable Food Lab in Sweden, VÄRT. Corina shares her story from her expertise in Industrial Design to her discovery of food waste in all parts of the food systems. She tells about working with the Swedish National Chef Team and learning how cooking fosters community and connection. In this conversation, we explore the importance of creativity in finding alternative uses for food products and by-products and how food sustainability can give us an understanding of sustainability across different fields and industries. Corina's passion for sustainable understanding and her mission to help people make tangible changes in their daily lives will inspire you to take action. Together, we share some practical tips to engage in sustainable thinking in your kitchen, from utilizing vegetable scraps to repurposing canning liquids including how to use the liquid from a can of chickpeas, known as aquafaba, to make your own mayonnaise!

The Recipe starts at 49:00
Resources mentioned in this episode:

Corina’s Social Media: Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn

VÄRT Sweden Website

Are you looking to elevate your Business in a mindful and aligned way? Get a 1:1 Business Coaching Session with Missy at: WomenInFood.net/workwithmissy

Become a member of the Women In Food Community at: WomenInFood.Net/Community

Missy’s Farm Website: CrownHillFarm.com
Missy’s Business Coaching Website: SpiritBizPeople.com

Aquafaba Mayonnaise

(Download a printable Recipe)

First of all, make some fantastic hummus, toasted chickpeas or other dish with a can of chickpeas, saving off the liquid from the can.  This liquid is called Aquafaba and can often be used as a replacement for egg whites to make vegan recipes. 

INGREDIENTS:

• 3 TBSP Chickpea Water (Aquafaba)

• 1-2 DeciLiters Neutral Oil (like rapeseed)

• Salt & Pepper to taste (or other flavors of your choice)

METHOD:

1. Pour the chickpea water / aquafaba in a bowl. Stick your handheld mixer in it and mix for 5 seconds-- until it starts to foam.

2. Carefully start pouring your neutral oil in a thing drizzle into the mixture while continuing to mix.

3. Keep mixing until the mixture is nice and thick—this should take about 3-4 minutes. This goes even faster if you have a blender.

4. Stir in your flavoring of choice.  Some suggestions are: garlic, mustard, lemon juice, horseradish, olive oil, chili, fresh herbs.. whatever you can imagine!.

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Missy Singer DuMars [00:00:04]:

Welcome to another episode of women in food. I'm your hostess, Missy Singer Dumars. This podcast is all about the intersection of 3 things, food, business, and the feminine. Each episode, I invite you to sit down with me and my debut guest as we dive into this intersection to spark your food curiosity, share a favorite recipe, and give you some fun food explorations along the way. I'm inspired by these women, farmers, chefs, bakers, cooks, writers, and food makers who all bring their passion for beauty, nourishment, Community, pleasure, connection, and deep care to others through food. These are women who advocate and take action towards increased food awareness for themselves, their families, and their neighborhoods. Before I introduce today's guest, I have one request. If you could, go over to Itunes or whatever app you're using to listen and give us a rating and review.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:00:57]:

It's a simple act that helps us a ton. Thank you so much. So today, I am thrilled to introduce To you, Karina Ochner, who combines social entrepreneurship and design thinking with sustainable gastronomy to teach organizations about bringing sustainability into their businesses using food as the vehicle for learning. Working in Sweden Through her company that she created called Votsch, Karina creates what she calls labs using her background in product design as a lens to look deeper into all aspects of sustainability. You'll hear how she grew up seeing food as a tool for gathering people together, Went on in her culinary interest to support the Swedish national chef team and now brings all these pieces together in her labs. So with that, Corinna, welcome to Women in Food. I am so honored and happy to have you join us.

Corina Akner [00:01:52]:

Thank you so much. It's a pleasure.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:01:54]:

Yeah. So I wanna start with, one of the big things about your business is that You call it social entrepreneurship, and I would love for you to talk more about what that means for you.

Corina Akner [00:02:10]:

Well, I think, food is connected to so many, many things. It's the farmers growing the the food, the soil knowledge about it, The cultural aspects of how we arrange all the things that's needed to create food and the timing and who to invite. So there's so many. So food is usually thought of as such a simple straight thing that we can just negotiate, with. But I and I think it's, Caring for all these other aspects that food provide, for us and caring for that. That's, A big passion of mine, and I think it's it's really what makes the companies that I work with, they get really turned on by that.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:02:52]:

So when you say that, what you're talking about is, not just a business for business, but A business that is aware of its, impact within community, within social groups, within the employees, I would imagine. Is that what you're kinda getting at?

Corina Akner [00:03:11]:

Yeah. Exactly. And by me having a good relationship with farmers and with producers and manufacturers and even logistic people, then I can be involved in the hardships that they have, and I can communicate that to end customers in a very intellectual, nice way where we see each other's struggles on different levels together. Knowing each other in this complex system and just having a idea about what comes what's behind the the item and I the items and the food that we have in front of us. Yeah. I'm that's something that we don't really see a lot of us, so I think that's, A big part that needs to see get more light shine shown on it.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:03:57]:

True. And from what I understand, your awareness to That interrelatedness and the power of food to bring people together started really young in your childhood. Is that right?

Corina Akner [00:04:09]:

Yeah. But I'm I've always liked, meeting over something else than just alcohol. A friendly culture. And, if you have something to meet around, then it's easier to not get as, Like, restless or, you know, you can just sit and eat these small cakes or, yeah, do them little match of beeping. And you can just Calm yourself down and your group can collect collectively join into something together. So I did that very early, like, and started Started bringing people together around different kind of small food activities.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:04:49]:

Right. And I think you were telling me Off line that even as a child, just seeing everyone like, I made a pie. Come on over. You know, that was kind of what you saw around you at an early age, which really informs this awareness of gathering around food.

Corina Akner [00:05:09]:

And And, like, my whole I had a really close relationship to my dad's mother, and we were always cooking, cooking almost in silence together. So so there's been a lot of, like, different kind of, just having food as a place to to invite people to to your place. And if you're the 1st one to call people And ask them over for something, then you get the people to come to you. So that was

Missy Singer DuMars [00:05:33]:

That's sort of the beginning.

Corina Akner [00:05:34]:

It's a tactic.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:05:36]:

It's a tactic.

Corina Akner [00:05:36]:

Yeah. For

Missy Singer DuMars [00:05:38]:

me, it's a tactic because I don't like going to parties where I don't know people. So if I do the inviting, then I am with all people I wanna spend time with.

Corina Akner [00:05:47]:

Yeah.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:05:48]:

There's always that. So tell us how you got to working with the Swedish national chef team. Like, I don't know if in the US do we have national chef teams? I've not ever heard of that before. So what is that? And then, Now what do they do, and then how did you become involved with it?

Corina Akner [00:06:07]:

So I was working at a kind of, when when restaurants had low staff, they could calling people when, when they were sick, for example. So I would be just jumping around different kind of places. So I've been in everything, like, really, really fine high astronomy Places and IKEA and, like, yeah, everything. Mhmm. And at one point, I was doing really well at that, and I'm a I'm a good social chameleon. So I got, they got the request to have someone in the national chef, kitchen. They have a, like, where they can test new things and

Missy Singer DuMars [00:06:40]:

Experimental. Yeah.

Corina Akner [00:06:41]:

Yeah. Exactly. And, and just where they'd go to perfect their recipes together. So, we have big wholesalers who actually provide these kind of kitchens and then invites people. We have the national Swedish chef team is probably Forty people. Wow. And they do a lot of, like, commercial collaborations with dairy companies or with meat producers or farms of different kinds. And and then they go to these wholesalers' really nice kitchen areas and do, yeah, and do workshops either with the schools or with each other or with other chefs.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:07:15]:

Mhmm.

Corina Akner [00:07:15]:

And I was kind of just assisting them in this kitchen, keeping it clean, and making sure that they had everything they needed. Then, like, as time went by, I started being more and more, like, just curious about what they were doing, and they were very silent a lot of the time. So I would walk around and be like, but how do you know when to put this in? Or, you know, why is it so brown? Or I would just ask kind of a non chef question, And that would really get them to talk to each other, and they'd be like, but that is actually the question that everyone in there was at was waiting to get responded.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:07:48]:

But nobody was asking.

Corina Akner [00:07:50]:

Yeah. Because you you're kind of in awe awe of each other, and you don't wanna ask stupid questions, but And then since you're so embodied, so that's what's so fun with this kitchen and this experiment kitchen, But they were standing next to each other making hot dogs, and it's almost it's such a intimate small little world that they create for their creativity to To develop together. Mhmm. Yeah. But but to also be articulated in that context isn't maybe their strengths. They more show off textures by By showing each other, and they they would touch things together and, like so it's a very, very calm, very feminine Little world I experienced. But, but by asking questions that were very simple for them, then they could start talking from a very good point of view, and then they would start sharing. So so as time went by, they were like, oh, can't you ask some good questions today? Can't, you know, can't can't you Can't you ask me about this? And usually people don't know when the temperature chocolate, you know, or whatever it is.

Corina Akner [00:08:52]:

How many cracks do you want it to be When the chocolate is cool cooling or whatever it was.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:08:58]:

Right. Right. And then they would all discuss with each other, I imagine, have different opinions and share their different experiences. And

Corina Akner [00:09:04]:

Yeah. Exactly. But I was so impressed of that way of learning. Like, when you're in the science school, when I was, like, learning how to sketch or work with clay or different materials, it It was on always just like sitting on your own practicing for a long time and then seeing if you could get the same end result. But no one, you know, pushed my And for me or told me when it was ready or so so this very knowledge about timing, which is The the heart of craft, when to do something, when to add something, or, what you're looking for in it. It's like, you'll know it when you see it, but it's like, I don't know what I'm looking for, so how could I know?

Missy Singer DuMars [00:09:41]:

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think that's something that, people Often say to me like, wow, you cooked so well. Send me the recipe or I did the recipe and didn't come out the same. And because there is that, Just inner sense, inner knowing of things that you natural like, if you cook a lot and you study it and you Learn from different people or you've watched people carefully and observe, you start to pick up these little things they don't actually tell you. They don't write in a recipe. They don't They don't even teach necessarily on the cooking show. Like like, I love to watch Jacques Pepin or Julia Child shows and just see the things that they That they're doing that they don't say they're doing, but they're doing

Corina Akner [00:10:25]:

Yeah.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:10:25]:

I got it. And, you know, learn those little bits. And then it's applying that across the board, you know, and I have a lot of chef friends since I I'm a farmer that works with a lot of chefs. Yeah. So, you know, when I cook together with them. I always notice the little the little things that they don't say or that's not in a recipe or that nobody really has taught me that they do. And I I love learning those, like, I call them the chef secrets. You know?

Corina Akner [00:10:52]:

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So and and I think by someone just asking stupid questions, they're they're not stupid, but, like, maybe it's the things that the group thinks is obvious. Then you then you start verbalizing. And by verbalizing, then you take you care for the acts of what you're doing more. Because the We have a silent language, body language, and a verbal intellectual language. Yeah.

Corina Akner [00:11:17]:

And by by having those active at the same time, That's when we're we can really engage each other and learn from each other.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:11:24]:

Correct. And so that awareness is something that you've brought Forward into the labs, as you call them, or classes that that you're doing, why don't you give our listeners a little Overview of what those labs are and how how you got to creating them.

Corina Akner [00:11:41]:

Yeah. So, after I finished my design education, I wanted to work with sustainable product development. And I when I was going around at different kind of internships and, working with that, I had a hard time understanding what kind of sustainability I wanted to work with. Was it like, modular production? Or was it vegan production? Or was it plastic free production? Or, And other there's so many different layers of of sustainability. And I was having a really hard time, like, hearing what argument people were bringing into the room. And I felt this big confusion always coming up that we we don't know what sustainability. We we aim at together. We don't have a collective understanding of all the kind of different sustainabilities that to to come across and stumble upon in different, yeah, other kind of conversations that might not be in the field we're in, but we still kinda link them together.

Corina Akner [00:12:38]:

So I decided to so I I moved from I'm from Stockholm originally, and I moved to the West Coast to a smaller city and, decided to Start a place where people could come and and then just get the compass out and put everything side by side and understand, like, this is my personal arguments. This is my company's argument. This is the futures. This is the IPCC's argument or whatever it is. Other kind of, Foundations that provide that start providing a a groundwork for, questions of sustainability. And then I was so In inspired by the way that you learned things in this, experiment kitchen with the chefs, the national chef team. So I wanted to also work with the physical, real material and get people to talk about, you know, my grandma actually did this and this. And This this was probably a sustainable practice a 100 years ago, and I wanted them to experience, the knowledge that we kind of already have built into us because we are A living in a a difference of generations next to each other.

Corina Akner [00:13:46]:

So since we're We're not isolated in the knowledge we have. We're always influenced by grandparents and parents and people around us. So by going back and forth in time and thinking about How, how the food's culture has changed and how logistics has changed and what the Internet made did for food or, you know, what whatever it is and getting them to really talk while doing something physically to get them to be comfortable because they their body is occupied, so they can just kinda relax and discuss together. So I I put down very simple things for them to do so they could be cutting croutons or doing something, roasting a seed or something. And then they would talk about what What role does protein play in your life? And by having really, like, carefully selected questions, I can get them to open up to each other and then Kinda wrap that up together with them in a lecture, to get people to just position themselves in a new in a new relationship to

Missy Singer DuMars [00:14:50]:

I love it. I'm, like, have a 100 different thoughts and questions as I was listening to you. It's, like, which

Corina Akner [00:14:55]:

thing do I wanna say?

Missy Singer DuMars [00:14:56]:

My brain's gonna explode. So what's interesting to me is a lot of people who talk about food and sustainability are talking about sustainable Food practices, which I know you're aware of and we're gonna talk about more in a little bit and with your recipe, but what I hear also is that you're talking about other sustainability other forms of sustainability as well and using food as a way to bring these conversations together. So it's almost like the reverse conversation. Right? Like, instead of sustainability in food, it's also sustainability outside of food with with with food as the way we come together.

Corina Akner [00:15:40]:

Yeah. Exactly. So I usually trick companies to think that they will just get the normal, fun, food related, the team building activity, but then they're actually learning about Each other from a very embodied and deep perspective about and sustainability. So it's, There there's 2 or 3 levels going on at the same time, so you can kinda switch in which one of them you're in. In the beginning of the workshop, I was very interested in the food aspect. And then maybe at the end, you were really interested in this person at your work that you haven't connected with before, where you had a really good discussion about, The role berries play in food culture or something like that.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:16:18]:

Right.

Corina Akner [00:16:18]:

Yeah. It's going back and forth. And by not having Complex recipes that people have to follow because that's something that draws so much attention to it. Then there's a right procedure to do things, and I want them to really feel that You can't fail. When you're done, you're done, and you don't have to meet this perfect standard. There's a randomness that you, provide into this lab. So we're not cooking food, really. We're just making we're just workshopping and Testing things in a small in small batches.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:16:50]:

And so what happens when one of these organizations, this group of people does this with you? How do they actually Carry those lessons back into whatever business they have.

Corina Akner [00:17:01]:

Yeah. So I've had my company for, Yeah. Like, four and a half years, and a few of them have been very heavy, heated by COVID and working from home, so I haven't. So the 1st two and a half years really were the the foundation of where my a way of working got developed. Mhmm. And I never really got to the 2nd stage that I'm really, really, really strongly trying to work to bring out this time because I just got a new space, like, 4 weeks ago. Mhmm. I got a new Kinda re yeah.

Corina Akner [00:17:33]:

Relaunching my my the work I was doing before.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:17:36]:

So how do you see like if you were gonna then take this class and talk about, okay, we made these berries and we shared these personal stories. Like, What is your message to a group when you send them off back to their

Corina Akner [00:17:49]:

Yeah. So, usually, some companies really do sustainable things. They really provide good good products to the world. And then that company, just everyone in the group who was with me, They know what kind of sustainability their product is addressing. So they just have a much better knowledge of their own product or, you know, What what do I work a lot with, Volvo, for example, which has their headquarter in Gothenburg where I live, another car a car car companies because it's a very car friendly town. Right. And all the change at the Changes that society needs to do regarding transportation and cars, it has a very link To the cars we're producing today, it's maybe it's not enough that they're electric. Maybe we still have to change the way that we travel together in cars.

Corina Akner [00:18:39]:

So Mhmm. To really emphasize on, like, how the car industry moving forward can play a huge role in changing the way People transport transport themselves and goods. They can really feel strong in you know, because a lot of people don't know if they're greenwashing things or not, And they're very confused about, like, what arguments, where they can feel strong. So just Positioning yourself and, like, I know that this is really good, and it's for these three reasons. And then Regarding other things, battery cons because cars is really light. They have so big batteries now, the electric ones. Maybe the the battery industry isn't solved, but the changing the mobility and the pattern and the behavior, maybe that's the focus that they can be proud in and kind of Talk more about and become better at.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:19:32]:

So it seems to me that learning the kind of, collaboration and Sharing of personal stories and knowledge that comes in the kitchen can then be applied in the business to solve problems in a more unique way.

Corina Akner [00:19:50]:

Yeah. So I'm I feel that, so many things in the sustainable, transition that we're in, They demand us to kinda question our norms and to do things a little differently. Mhmm. And just going back a few decades, like 10, 30 decades years ago, we did the we did things differently. If we go back 57 years, we did things differently again. So we have society. It's always transforming, but we kinda don't really feel that transition because it happens over time. So by putting yourself in a situation where you think about, what did my grandma do? Or, you know, whatever these other Time period is the number of people for them to have a good set of food items and a rich food culture.

Corina Akner [00:20:33]:

And how we don't, you know, we don't mill our own wheat, wheat anymore, or we don't do these things that were such a big, Also, like, feminine time consuming activity Mhmm. Care preparing. So what what did we lose and what did we gain from that?

Missy Singer DuMars [00:20:51]:

Right. Which then helps them figure out what do they lose and what do they gain with decisions they're making for sustainability in their whatever their

Corina Akner [00:20:58]:

Yeah. Dumars is What norms would so the car industry really has to challenge their new customers' norms if they're gonna provide a car as a service instead of a car ownership, for example. So that's being aware of how people can change, but don't really want to and what can be good ways to reach people's norm normative behavior, how to play with it, and invite people into being part of, like, Choosing how to change the norms rather than, like, forcing it on us, because we don't wanna be forced and cornered with our change.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:21:32]:

Yeah. And most people are resistant to change in general. I know I certainly am most of the times. Like, try and get me to change something on the farm. It's almost impossible. I've actually learned to tell people to to ask me for if they if they let me know or they ask me, can they share a suggestion before just Dumping an idea on me, I'm much more receptive than than if they're just like, I have this idea. Let's do This way, I'm usually like, no. I don't wanna change anything.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:22:00]:

But if they're like, can I share an idea on how we could do this a little differently? I'm like, oh, yeah. Sure. Tell me. And then Yeah. I think about it, and then often we do the change.

Corina Akner [00:22:08]:

So Yeah. No. But I think and a lot of people suggest telling your Your parents or your older colleague or something to stop eating meat or whatever, they will feel, just a resentment to that. It's part of their who they are, and it's identity and a culture. So don't Talk to me about my food habits. Right. But, but maybe there's many things that changed from what they preferred eating when they were young till today. And if you kinda get them to think, So I usually, like, I stay off the meat topic because it's very inflammatory and usually work with and usually work with, like, coffee or something else.

Corina Akner [00:22:42]:

And what happens if I serve you cup a cold coffee in a thermos instead of warm coffee? You know? Or you can just by just changing one sensuous aspect of, of interaction with the thing, then usually the whole experience has changed a lot too.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:22:58]:

Yeah. I I love this. It's interesting, you know, and a lot of business and coaching culture that I spend I have spent time in, you know, I talk about or and in a lot of learning culture, you talk about learn like learning to drive in a parking lot where it's Safe or experimenting with something with something that doesn't, isn't as weighty, doesn't matter in the same way before you You know, so kind of what you're creating is this atmosphere where they can experiment with inviting change, trying change for themselves, sharing ideas with something safe like Coffee or berries or whatever, which then opens the doors to knowing how to invite those changes, you know, in where it might matter more in your business or with cars or whatever it is. So I think that's super intriguing and I love how you're using Food I mean, there's so many other ways people can teach these things, but I love how you're using food and bringing people into a kitchen. And to me, This is such a feminine way of you know, you're bringing feminine business and social entrepreneurship and sustainability all together in one place and it I mean, this is why I wanted to bring you on to our podcast because it's such a fascinating, to me, interesting and creative, combination of Aspects, but, you know, I on my podcast and my listeners know, I talk a lot about the feminine, being around hearth craft and tending the Harth, and and anyone who has a social gathering at their home knows that no matter what you do with the rest of the house, everybody gathers in the kitchen, and that's that's where everyone's hanging out. It doesn't matter that all the food is on a table in another room. It doesn't matter that the game is on in the living room or whatever it is. Yep.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:24:45]:

Everyone's if there's 1 person in the kitchen, everyone will stand in the kitchen and talk and eat. And there's such a natural and I think it's a feminine Trait, but a natural thing in humanity to to gather around the fire, around the warmth, to gather around the food and the sustenance. And so it's like you're You've actually built a business, whose foundation is that.

Corina Akner [00:25:09]:

Yeah. That was, amazingly good. It's it took a it took a little while to kind of figure out how to do this, because I just had this gut feeling of, like, This is what we need to do. And I can have kind of the same workshop with people who are 16 or 14 and people who are 60, and and high, high positions in different companies because we we lack, society lacks this sustainable way of producing sustainable understanding. We just get graphs that say, like, stop this. Don't do this. And it's a very, like, hostile, very mathematical information. But this how to connect it to our aesthetic world, and what actual decisions to change, and how to update our thinking in a In a setting that we already like, you know, everything in my house, should I throw it all away? And, you know, how how what should I do? How, In my day to day world, how do I go about trying to be more take more sustainable Decisions and yeah.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:26:11]:

Decisions. Yeah. Yeah. So in a moment, I wanna dive into that question a little bit more and talk together about Some sustainable decisions that we can actually make around food in our kitchen that are not about whether you're vegan or vegetarian or Meat eating, but just in how you move in your kitchen. So we're gonna talk about that and you have a recipe on, how to more sustainably Use ingredients that and things that are often perceived as waste in the kitchen. That's my hint to where we're gonna go with the conversation for my listeners. But before we do that, I'm gonna take a quick break and share a little bit more about how Women in Food is supported. As my listeners know, I care a lot about food and land and this includes the success of food and land based businesses.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:27:02]:

I believe that sustainability goes beyond the land to how we grow ourselves and how we grow our business at the same time, and I've noticed that many folks in food and land space have fantastic concepts and strong passion and deep care, but still struggle to market and run their business in ways that can make the impact they envision while also providing for themselves at the same time. I always say that most farmers I know are great farmers, but dread or avoid sales and marketing and business planning. I'm the other way around. Farming is totally my learning curve, but I know business and strategy really well. Besides hosting this podcast and running my own farm, I'm a business coach having coached hundreds of entrepreneurs from across the world in a range of industries to mindfully grow their business. So if you're listening to this podcast As a food or land based entrepreneur who's looking to what the next phase of growth for your business is, this kind of coaching could be for you. And if you'd like support in this way from me, you can go to my website and have a 90 minute session with me. And let me tell you, I can get a lot covered in 90 minutes.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:28:18]:

And the way to the website is women in food.netforward/workwithmissy and I'll put the link in the show notes as well. Here's the deal. I want every listener of this podcast to thrive and particularly land and food based businesses to thrive, because honestly, I believe that those businesses having success is our future. So once again, the website is womeninfood.netforward/ work with Missy, m I s s y, and I look forward to supporting you if you're a listener and this would be in service to you. So, Carina, I wanna talk more about sustainability in food, and I know a topic that you have some passion around is, things in food that are perceived food waste and how we can use them. And I know I have a passion around that, especially In the past number of years, I've lived on a farm and started to learn different ways of operating in my kitchen and so much more. So very little goes into the trash anymore. And What does is often into the compost, which then goes into my garden.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:29:37]:

So there's very little food waste, and it always Adonishes me the different ways I've discovered and learned to use things that used to go into the trash. I'm curious, Maybe what are some of your favorite things or, like, what's a good way for somebody to start paying attention to to that in their own kitchen?

Corina Akner [00:29:58]:

Yeah. So that's that's a great question too. So I think when you have a closed loop like you have, You have the soil outside the door and the cooking stove inside, and you just kinda move things back and forth. A lot a lot of us in urban Situations, we don't have that closed loop where we see the difference that we do. And so, usually so, like, Kim, there's 2 ways of thinking about food waste. 1 is a reactive way. It's like in a in a store when you would See a brown banana, you can buy it, and you can make a banana bread out of it. And you can even be in the business that collects brown bananas and tries to make banana bread, for example.

Corina Akner [00:30:37]:

Sweet.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:30:37]:

Can I just say something about that for a second? And this is a great example. Well, a couple of things. First of all, my interview in Women in Food, I forget the episode number with Natasha. We talk about banana bread and exactly Using the brown bananas, but also, it's a longer story, but a friend of mine who has now started a, A foundation in Africa, I believe in Uganda, she started because she went to visit an orphanage her mother helped build. And her mother helped building it helped to build it, making banana bread. And all these, stores And chefs started contributing, like, brown bananas and all the supplies and helped baking so that she can make enough banana bread to raise funds to build an orphanage. So I just wanna point out the power of banana bread. Yeah.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:31:34]:

And that's one thing. Like, instead of skipping the brown bananas, buy the brown And as some a lot of stores discount them, so you save money and, make banana bread or muffins or there's, You know, even put them in the freezer for future use or for smoothies. There there's so many things to do. But now I'll let you continue to.

Corina Akner [00:31:52]:

Yeah. No problem. They have a they have a different, you know, there there's it's not the same thing with a green banana and a brown banana. They have different Aesthetic aesthetics and different tastes and textures.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:32:07]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Corina Akner [00:32:08]:

And just the composition there is different. Mhmm. So so either that's, like, you can play within the rules that there is waste at the end of the day at the end of the day, with the banana As a product, as a system, as a logistics. Right. Right. And the proactive way of looking at waste would be if We want less Brown bananas to take care of because we think that's a very heavily volunteered business with a lot of women doing a lot of work And not kind of scaling anything, and it's a very, like, irregular, very, like, hard world world To to save to go in at the end of something. And usually, the products that end up as waste in this massive, Yeah. We're we're just we throw every 3rd lemon or, you know, all these like, it's so much pesticides, and they're so poorly grown, and they're not ecological.

Corina Akner [00:32:59]:

And they're just dumped transported around the world, and, like, we don't really pay for them throughout the system. So no one even cares if they don't get eaten at the end of the day, Except then people who come in and care about the system and says, why can't we just eat it instead? And so instead of bringing creativity to the end pipe of this line, You can bring that creativity in were earlier on and say, what can we change in the systems to address different kind of time slots and how can we, like, fraction a banana or whatever it is. Right. So that we know that we're gonna make smoothies. So Day 3 is always the smoothie pickup day. Then we don't have to handle this almost going into waste. So so food waste is The in in Swedish, we have a word called, and it just means something being tossed. It doesn't really have a waste connection to it, so I usually say food In English as well, because it's just this mix mix mismatch.

Corina Akner [00:33:57]:

We don't find someone who wants to do a smoothie, so we're gonna we're gonna throw it. But if you don't have this mismatch, then there's someone who wants a more sweet banana or a more stale banana or whatever. People in society want different communication and apps and all the other kind of things that we have today that we don't have to just pour all this waste onto a few Small entrepreneurs really, really struggling, to take care of this huge amount of waste, and they're not really affecting the input. They're just affecting the output. Right.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:34:35]:

So just to recap and make sure I got it right. And for our listeners, there's kind of 2 ways to think about it. 1 is reactivity. So, okay, there's this potential waste that's almost waste. What can we do with it? That's reactive. Or there's proactive. What can we do with this banana supply before it becomes almost waste to distribute to people who will use it when it's fresh. Like, how do we get it there, or how do we grow less, or, like, what else creatively can we do to not have browning bananas in the 1st place.

Corina Akner [00:35:05]:

And and and our supermarkets today, they don't have a big kitchen in the part of the store where they Just, you know, dry bananas and put them in the New York. They don't do that service. They just order in food products and sell it. So we used to have when we had smaller stores 50 years ago, we had a much more women taking off the peel of the fish and making a bouillon or, like, Doing these different kind of acts and selling more food related

Missy Singer DuMars [00:35:33]:

air fryers. Canning

Corina Akner [00:35:34]:

Yeah. Exactly.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:35:35]:

Drying, whatever, and then it can stay on the Self longer and

Corina Akner [00:35:38]:

Yeah.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:35:39]:

Which also helps people wear their seasons, which I imagine you see in Sweden. Right? Like, in winter, Nothing's available, so we need to like take and that happens, you know, I see that here. It's like there is an abundance of tomatoes in the middle of summer And then all the farms sell canning, you know, bushels of tomatoes. So people, some people, you know, wait for that and Buy you know, you buy a lot extra more than you need fresh in the summer, but then you can it, you dry them, you preserve them, whatever, so then you have them the rest of the year.

Corina Akner [00:36:11]:

Yeah. And so I usually think about it as a main production. The actual reason we grow this thing or we do it, which is maybe for the cauliflower heart or for the Artichoke heart or for the tomato juice. But then there's, like, the the tomato peels or other things that are that you can't get the juice without the peels. So you always Right. Almost food food is always like, you have you're selecting one part of it that you want. You sometimes it's the fluid. Sometimes it's the fibers.

Corina Akner [00:36:37]:

It kinda changes What part it is of the food that we want?

Missy Singer DuMars [00:36:42]:

Right. Right. I mean, I think about that with a lot of things. Even, I mean, here in the US, a lot of people buy, say, a rotisserie chicken from the market that's already cooked. And I know when I buy rotisserie Street Shifkin. I have multiple plans. It's like, okay, tonight I'm gonna eat, you know, one of the breasts Fresh on a salad or with dinner. And then the other breast, I'm gonna chop up and make chicken salad for tomorrow.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:37:09]:

And then When I buy the chicken, I'm gonna buy the vegetables I need to make chicken broth, and then the rest of the chicken is gonna go straight into a pot. So I can make broth and then, you know, And then and then and then. So there's already a plan for all the parts, whereas a lot of people might cut the breasts off and eat the legs and then throw the whole all the bones and everything away.

Corina Akner [00:37:31]:

Yeah. So on an industrial level, thinking like that, in a company structure, I would call that providing a support product structure. So you would already know that every time we get, yeah, this, the the leaves of the or the stem of the kale Or whatever. Then we do this. We pickle them, and then we have kale stem pickles in our restaurant. Or so by having Things already put in place what that you can put things that appear in. And if they're not time sensitive, you freeze them or you dry them or you do things. And when you get enough, then you use So then then it's not producing something new or fresh that you have to handle fresh, and you get waste from that.

Corina Akner [00:38:12]:

So you kind of take time. You steer where you want time, and usually time is connected to water. So if there's still water in the product, then you have to continue either pickling it and closing it off from the world Right. Or you take the water out of it. Right.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:38:27]:

Which I'm very lucky. I actually have and this is for my listeners. This is super fun. I have a freeze dryer, a home freeze dryer here.

Corina Akner [00:38:34]:

Wow.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:38:34]:

So it's super fun.

Corina Akner [00:38:35]:

I want 1.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:38:36]:

And it's amazing because if you do it correctly and store it correctly, those foods can last 25 years. And, they keep and that includes meats, eggs, vegetables. I actually, you know, I grow a lot of here's an interesting one. I grow a lot of edible flowers for restaurants and chefs. And, The flowers, first of all, will make more blooms if you cut the blooms. Like, the more you cut the blooms off the plants, the more they'll produce blooms. Right? And so but I don't always have enough orders for the number of blooms I have, but I want to cut them so they'll keep producing fresh ones. So Throughout the summer, I'm regularly cutting the blooms and then freeze drying them.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:39:21]:

And then now in the winter, restaurants are asking me, like, do you have flowers yet? I'm like, I don't have fresh flowers, but I have these beautiful Freeze dried flowers, and they they stay fresh and I can use them. And so things like that, the same with herbs. It's like if you Trim the herbs regularly on the farm, then they'll grow beautiful new growth. So even if I don't have a customer or a place for them to go, I'm gonna Trim them and freeze dry them, and then I'll use them all winter or I'll sell them that way. But, yeah, it's truly a fun thing because it gets water out Better than any other

Corina Akner [00:39:51]:

Yeah. But and just having the possibility of having a, like, a machine park.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:39:57]:

Mhmm.

Corina Akner [00:39:57]:

So so far, I I worked a lot with the horseradish company, and I worked at the the cauliflower company. And this cauliflower company, some They throw away between 20 40% of all the cauliflowers that's that are too small because there's too much leaves to it. And a lot of people don't wanna eat Cauliflower leaves, even though they taste cauliflower and they're fine. So so by us wanting just the little heart of that Product, they just they're fine with just milling them down in the soil again. Mhmm. But from a, like, driving food perspective and taking care of because we're still going over these fields with the tractors and doing all the things. So there's a there's a meaningfulness into picking up what we can from that soil.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:40:38]:

Right.

Corina Akner [00:40:39]:

That season instead of just yeah. Because we can get, to the soil in many ways. And despite yeah. So so so by making a product that wants these smaller colored flowers And maybe the stems and the leaves. And we make a special side product, a support product for those, and we put that in place At the beginning, then the farmer can farm harvest a lot more, and then they just supply 2 different kind of products. 1 puree Right. Right. We can make child food, or we can make Different, you know, smoothies or different other kind of soups or things where we we just account for flavors.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:41:19]:

That's the stem. Yeah. Yeah.

Corina Akner [00:41:20]:

It provides. Exactly. So, buddy, do

Missy Singer DuMars [00:41:22]:

you Well, cauliflower is a great example because I don't know about Sweden, but here in the United States, almost everything has a cauliflower version. So I surely hope they're not Really hope they're not growing more cauliflowers. They're using the cauliflowers that people don't wanna buy in the grocery store, like you said, because they can beat pizza crusts and cauliflower rice and this and that and the other thing. Everything's made out of cauliflower these days, which I find funny because I don't actually like cauliflower all that much, and I'm like, why is everything cauliflower? Like, what happened that cauliflower became the big, You know, cauliflower has like a new life now.

Corina Akner [00:41:55]:

Yeah. So many things we need out of it. And usually the big companies like Dole, Who makes the cauliflower rice in Sweden, for example? The banana company.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:42:03]:

Mhmm.

Corina Akner [00:42:04]:

Dough. Yeah. They would make cauliflower rice in in a bag, but they don't buy, You know, support product, cauliflower. They probably buy normal cauliflower and derive from it, and that just accounts for a new kind of waste in this bag this plastic bag that doesn't breathe. So today, we're, like, we're adding things from before the store. If the store just had a shredder, you could Put the cauliflower through it if you wanted rice, and that would be a service the store would get, a dollar for or whatever. But instead, we have these companies in different parts of the world not accounting for the waste or the side streams or being smart. They focus on one thing in front of them and just leave the waste where it is instead of This store kind of being part of the production in the relationship to the customers and what their needs are.

Corina Akner [00:42:53]:

And we have these huge aisles where we have, like, Cauliflower in 10, 15 different products that all go bad with all different kinds of dates connected to them instead of Just having the whole fruit food and kind of processing it closer to the eater.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:43:09]:

Yeah. It's interesting. I think, and as we've been talking this whole time, I I've been thinking about how a lot of these sustainable practices are actually it's such an interesting combination of new innovation and returning turning to old world practices. And you kind of referenced that when you talked about, folks in your labs sharing about this is how my grandma did it and and stories of their own childhood and and generations and and, looking both it's like an interesting combination of learning from past and looking forward to future innovation at the same time.

Corina Akner [00:43:44]:

And now we're also moving in food. We want to Move away from fossil fuels. So we're we're moving into a, meant a space where we will grow our energy. We will grow our textiles. You know? We're growing our food. So what soil how do we treat the soil that's not ending up in ecological food? How do we treat the soil that's growing The trees for our pellets or our bio gas or whatever it is. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Corina Akner [00:44:10]:

How how do we do we have the same, criteria to meet for all things that are grown from the Earth. No. We don't. So, like, the sugar canes that are Super sustainable biogas. You know? What sugar canes? We stopped or aiding sugar canes and making rum from them because we thought didn't think the The production was sustainable. But now when we're when we're replacing fossil fuels, then the sugar canes came back up, And we got this really shitty mass grown sugarcane that's obviously putting down the rainforest and things. But we we don't think of it as food anymore. We just think of it as a A good Fuel.

Corina Akner [00:44:46]:

Yeah. Fuel is that. But, I mean, it's it's food, the soil. It's all soil is soil. So when we're feeding people, or we're providing energy to people or, Mattea, now we're gonna also make plastic out of core. Or no you know, what how is that corn grown? Who has the knowledge to grow sustainable corn so we can make plastic of it on the scale where it actually makes a dent in the fossil fuels. You know, that so so soil and knowledge about soil is just getting, Like tripled now because everything is gonna be grown because that's sustainable, quotation marks. Right.

Corina Akner [00:45:20]:

Right. Right. But then we need to have really smart farmers who know, like, I grow this plant, and I grow hemp because we can do energy from the plant, from this fiber parts, and we can eat the hearts. And, You know, we need people to really, really rethink what plants are we gonna grow to feed them.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:45:36]:

Yeah. And that's where we get yeah. Yeah. And that's where we get into agroforestry Stumps and what's called, silvo pasturing, which I do a little bit of. So, for my listeners, that's When you pasture animals in a woodland environment, and in my case, it's a woodland environment that's producing food. So I pasture my sheep, for part of the year through my fruit orchards. So they're fertilizing The fruit trees that then produce fruit for my customers and to eat, and they're mowing the lawn for me, which is really nice so I don't have to take time or spend fuel to mow the lawn. And they're growing they're getting food.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:46:16]:

They're growing wool so I don't have to buy hay from somewhere else and transport it or anything like that. So, systems like that, regenerative agriculture, like these are all the systems that are looking at Soil health, yeah, kind of what you're talking about. Not just soil health, but soil usage and and how we can be

Corina Akner [00:46:37]:

sustainable with it. And yeah. Yeah. All the factors that's

Missy Singer DuMars [00:46:42]:

So for our non gardening, non farming listeners who live in urban environments, There's a few ways that you can step into this kind of sustainable thinking as well in your kitchen. I know for me, one of the first Places I started paying attention was when I was cutting vegetables and, for example, a carrot and you cut the ends off, putting those in a bag and putting them in my freezer, and when the bag is full, making soup broth, then putting the soup broth in the freezer. And then I don't have to buy containers of broth that's made elsewhere with questionable ingredients, when a recipe or when something I'm cooking wants broth or if I just want to eat soup. And so that was like a a first way. So onion skins and, like, just all the pieces that you would cut off the ends of Celery the ends of carrots. I always have Ziploc bags in my a bag in my freezer that I stuff with even the the green tops of carrots add so much wonderful flavor. I mean, you can eat them, you can make pesto with them, you can do so many things. So I started to notice when I cut an end off something or I take the top off a carrot or whatever it is, like, can I do something with this? Is it edible? Is it usable in another way? What can I do with it? Shove it in my freezer until I figure out what to do with it.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:47:54]:

And then, you know, either In the worst case make soup another great thing. If you have a home dehydrator, sometimes I Food process a bunch of vegetables into a paste and spread it on the dehydrator and dehydrate it. And then you have like a, Like a soup bouillon, a vegetable soup bouillon or I like to actually sprinkle it on popcorn and things like that, but the way to eat vegetables, But, you know, that was a first step. Now I raise sheep and I, I naturally dye the wool different colors, the yarn Colors with natural products. And so I've started to learn there's food waste that can be used to make colors like all the onion skins. So now I have 2 bags in my freezer, 1 for onion skins and a separate one for all the vegetables that will become soup or pesto. So those are kind of 3 bags. There's a pesto bag, a soup bag, in an onion skin bag.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:48:46]:

And then when I have enough onion skins, usually that's when my yarn comes back and I'm ready to dye beautiful golden, and Brown Hughes with the onion skin. So and and people who stay in my house, they'll start to throw onion skins. I'm like, don't throw it away. Don't throw it away. There's a bag in the freezer. Stick them in the freezer.

Corina Akner [00:49:02]:

Valuable resource.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:49:04]:

Yes. It's a valuable resource. But even if you don't cook with fresh vegetables and use canned things, there's ways to save waste, and that is the recipe you're giving us. Right? Yeah. And so your recipe is for aquafaba mayo. Why don't you Start with what aquafaba is.

Corina Akner [00:49:22]:

So I'm gonna go, and there's a funny story there. So when you cook, chickpeas, you get this really starchy water that you pour out of the little tit little titla pack, the little paper or can. And that water has recently people started really Appreciating the properties it has as, it could replace egg yolk in both the mayos and in meringue, for example. So it can be used as both egg white and egg yolk. Right. And I was in the project where they were researching, the idea of just selling this because it's a substitute project that doesn't, egg this allergen, and people don't want wanna replace egg in different thing, in baking and stuff. So they were looking at just provide having aquafaba, which is aqua means aqua, and fava means bean. So they were they wanted just that water as its own product.

Corina Akner [00:50:15]:

And when they were cooking all these bean the beans to get the water, They didn't have a plan to do for what to do with the chickpeas, so they were throwing chickpeas away to get the water.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:50:26]:

Which is so funny because usually it's the other way people throw the water away to get the chickpeas.

Corina Akner [00:50:30]:

Yeah. So so it's just such a ridiculous way of, like, when we're when we're interested in something, Then we don't we just we just take what we want from that system. So even when we're we just want this side stream, Instead of teaming up with someone who's already cooking a piece and then working with them in the whole experiment process to find this product, an ad prod product. We're then we're just standing up not seeing the value in the beans anymore. So it's very, like, I think that's a great example of how our attention on something really shifts if we want to eat that or not or throw away or yeah. How are you?

Missy Singer DuMars [00:51:10]:

Because there could be a really great hummus company, and then there could be a really great vegan mayo company. Yeah. And they could work together.

Corina Akner [00:51:17]:

Yeah. Or may yeah. Or maybe the the company just makes 2 things instead. Yeah.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:51:22]:

Or 1 company makes 2 things. Yeah. Yeah. Have a waste and make That's the money

Corina Akner [00:51:26]:

idea of making 2 things. That sounds you know? Right. We have a very linear economy. So So it's, we maximize profit out of one thing and get really good on that. So adding a new segment, like, for a beer producer To actually do use this bent grain and this really protein rich fiber product for them to be creative enough to actually sell beer and On the same industrial scale as they're selling beer, also send spend sell the spent grain. I mean, that would demand a really complex business model.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:51:58]:

It actually doesn't. All you need is a way to deliver to a lot of farmers because farmers use love the spent grain for, I know particularly for For pork, for hog farming, I've talked to local breweries about spent grain for my animals.

Corina Akner [00:52:13]:

But it's also a great product to just bake bread with. To bake yeah. There's Singer Dumars. I have a brewery who's next door to a bakery, and I was like, can't you just drive and sit and give it to each other? But But for them to kinda set up that because they're so beer oriented. So for them to stop and step out of their beer production and think about this This other thing that they're also producing, every time they make a ton of beer, they get the ton you know, 5 tons of spent grain.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:52:39]:

Mhmm.

Corina Akner [00:52:40]:

So so, actually, the main product From a volume perspective that they're producing is spent grain, but that's just considered waste in the line of work they're in.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:52:50]:

Right. And I want to point out like from a business perspective, doing both things, say having 1 business that makes hummus and aquafaba mayo and sells them both. Having that kind of diversity in a single business is actually creates a more sustainable business because, you know, should people suddenly decide they're not excited by hummus anymore, but they still want vegan mayo, you still have a business. Whereas if you're singularly focused, and something happens with that singular focus or a machine breaks or whatever it is, your SOL is contagious. Yeah. You have a problem. Right? So and and farmers know this, you know. I don't know a farmer that I don't know many farmers, small scale farmers that only have 1, revenue stream.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:53:38]:

Right? Usually and and farmers are great farms are great examples of exactly what you're talking about because we're very creative. For example, I my friend and I just made our spring soaps, and our spring soaps are made with tallow. Tallow is Beef fat that's rendered or beef fat is called suet, and it's rendered or melted down into tallow. And it can be used to make soaps. Now that fat I get from an area butcher who's cutting it off of meats and he would just be throwing it out otherwise. So I have a partnership with him. I get the tallow. I render it, and my friend and I make soaps, and then we sell the soaps.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:54:17]:

So that's another example, but, like, you know, that's 1 piece of my farm. So, you know, say nobody wants my vegetables anymore or we have a Climate crisis, and I have no vegetables and all my chicken but my chickens are fine, so I can still sell eggs, and, The butcher still is making tallow, then I still have a business it can sustain because there's other revenue streams. So Even from a pure business perspective, investing in creating multiple revenue streams that all are from the same product is a very wise, move in diversifying your your business.

Corina Akner [00:54:52]:

It's just usually the amount of chickpeas in the the relationship to aquafaba that you get. Maybe they're not adapted to what the market wants. Say the market wants a lot more aquafaba than chickpeas or the other way around. Around. Yeah. Since we're not logic In buying 1 deciliter of each, you know, we're not, investing in, 1 fresh Tomato, 1 tomato puree, and 1 canned tomato. We just buy fresh tomatoes or, you know, or, you know, whatever. So we're just taking one part of this actual system of products.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:55:25]:

Mhmm.

Corina Akner [00:55:26]:

Alright. Right. So so chickpea mayo is a great thing, and I recommend everyone to just try because it's such a brilliant thing. It's just see appear from this really gray, thick, starchy leftover water. So you take 3 tablespoons the water, and you put them in a little bowl, and you take your handheld mixer, and then you just whip this chippy water a little bit so it's me, and then you very carefully, with the thin drizzle, pour in 1 to 2 deciliters of neutral oil, like a red tea oil or canola oil.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:55:59]:

And then That's basically how you make mayo with eggs too.

Corina Akner [00:56:02]:

Yeah. Right? Like, pretty

Missy Singer DuMars [00:56:03]:

much, you whip the eggs and then you slowly drizzle in while you're whipping.

Corina Akner [00:56:08]:

So The just replaced the egg with the egg yolk juice chickpea water. Yeah. Right. And then this really nice thick foam appears. And the only weird thing is that it tastes water from chickpeas. It tastes like a little weak chickpea Kinda thing. But since you're if you have garlic or chili or horseradish or some nice flavoring or pepper and salt, then it doesn't matter because the that it's the flavor itself is neutral. We can easily cover it up.

Corina Akner [00:56:36]:

So it's just in its own natural state, but you don't have to, yeah, if you don't if if you want a spice Mayo. Then this is a great base, and you owe

Missy Singer DuMars [00:56:46]:

me this I mean, a basic a basic mayo, usually has a little bit of a lemon flavor, so some lemon juice gets added in. Exactly. It has, salt in it, and it usually has a little bit of, mustard. So, you know, that's So as soon as those mayo flavor has Exactly. Actually all those other flavors. So

Corina Akner [00:57:07]:

And and you don't have to think about Temperature, you don't have to think about anything. You just you wait for this little foam, and you really wanna have the a clean bowl with the chickpea water in and slowly pour the The oil in.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:57:20]:

The oil in. Yeah.

Corina Akner [00:57:20]:

Yeah. So Charley Ray from your previous podcast, she was the one that told me why this happens, and it's because she said gastronomy and molecular shift. And the the little chickpea, the thing, the inside the chickpea water, the starch, It has a little head that's water sensitive and one that's fat sensitive. So by hitting these really hard and pouring in the oil slowly, Then you get all these heads with the little fats part to come together, and that's what keeps the structure and integrity of the

Missy Singer DuMars [00:57:52]:

Right. Right. It's an emulsification.

Corina Akner [00:57:54]:

Yeah. Exactly. So you can't pour oil in fast, then you ruin it. So it's Yeah. Yeah. But it takes. And if you have, like, a a blender or a little bigger machine, it takes 30 seconds to do this. But in a handheld mixer, maybe it takes 2, 3 minutes.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:58:07]:

Yeah. Yeah. I do it. I make mayos of all kinds in my blender. Or you can use a stick Blender, which is nice if you don't have a big blender, you know, or immersion blender, some people call it, in a cup. That's another way to Do it. But yeah. You wanna because it it takes part of pouring the oil slowly is it takes a moment For all of it to be incorporated, for the science to occur.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:58:33]:

So if you go too fast, the the aquafaba will get overwhelmed by the oil before you incorporate it in. It's like, no. Too much. Then it will separate.

Corina Akner [00:58:42]:

So But probably, you will have more aquafaba than You won't because it's a lot of oil in relationship to aquaphobas. So if you just fail, you just pour it out and take a new one.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:58:53]:

So Right. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. So if you if it separates and you mess it up Yeah. Pour it out, try again. But that's great.

Corina Akner [00:59:00]:

For me, it's a great I it's a great way to also, like, have chickpeas because then I also make hummus. And I love hummus, but sometimes I don't remember that I like hummus in my daily world. But if I'm like, I'm gonna make mayo, then I open the package. So I naturally And

Missy Singer DuMars [00:59:14]:

then you're like, oh, yeah. I can make hummus too. Yeah. Or a soup or you can actually, I see a lot of things. People who like to do salad bowls, you can roast your chickpeas, and then they get crispy, crunchy, and they're great on salad, like a little protein crunchy Kick so there's so many things to do with both chickpeas and with the aquafaba. But mayo is a great one. If you like meringues or meringue cookies, playing with the aquafaba as a replacement for the egg whites and anything with a meringue, I've seen that done for a lot of vegan

Corina Akner [00:59:46]:

baking. They get perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you sometimes you just as you would have to do if you were making meringue with egg, you would have to Develop a skill for how to whip it too.

Missy Singer DuMars [00:59:58]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Corina Akner [00:59:58]:

But, yep.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:00:00]:

So that's, Just and anytime you're opening a can of something, You know, think about all the parts of what's in that can and can you use it. I know a lot of people and sometimes I do this too is like if I open a can of Or jar of olives, the oil or water in the olives can be added to sauce. It kinda adds That salty, briny flavor to, like, a tomato sauce, you know, if you don't want anchovies or you add it into a Almost everything is add into a salad dressing. So Yep. That's like my default, but the same thing there. Or, I recently did a recipe He that only used the he used the cream of the coconut milk for one part of the recipe and the liquid for totally different part of the recipe, and I thought that was Very interesting. I've also learned, like, there's a chef there's a chef early trick around making pasta with sauce That you don't just dump the pasta water because there's all these starches in that. And so you put some of the pasta water in the sauce after you add the pasta into your tomato sauce or whatever kind of sauce, and it helps pull it all together.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:01:06]:

That's done, if you ever make, oh, what's the Italian? I lost it there. Carbonara? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Any of those or, you know, with the Parmesan and just Parmesan and and butter and, And then but some of the pasta water, the starches and everything, it it actually and I do this with all my sauces now. It's like it helps the sauce hold together, pull together.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:01:31]:

It helps it cling back Back to the pasta really nicely. It smooths things out. So stuff like that that I used to just dump into a strainer. Now I have a strainer Spoon, and I scoop the pasta out and keep the pot of water there. Yeah. And even simple things like, okay. If I still have the water from the pasta and I want some, You know, quick broccoli, let me just or beans or whatever. Let me just throw it in the same water.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:01:53]:

It's already hot. It's slightly salty. It's already salted from the pasta. Just use it again. You know? So So sometimes I keep my pasta water on the stove for a couple of days, and I'll use it a few times before I I, get rid of it. But Yeah. Opening jars and cans, tuna fish is another one. Like, the water or the oil from the tuna can go into a dressing, can go into a Sauce.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:02:14]:

Sometimes I drizzle some of it on my cat's food for the cats to get the extra oils, all kinds of things. I used to give my cats coconut Oil sometimes too. So there's just so many ways to use those things. And, the other fun one I will say is I collect Avocado pits. That's the other thing in my freezer, are the pits from avocados because, they are a wonderful dye We're colorant, for well, for me for wool, but you can use them for other things too. So I actually have a local smoothie shop who saves all their avocado pits and then gives them to me in big bags Nice.

Corina Akner [01:02:51]:

That I

Missy Singer DuMars [01:02:52]:

then keep in my freezer. So there's a lot of ways, even if you're in an urban environment, you don't have to be on a farm, you don't have to be partner to find small ways to start these sustainable practices.

Corina Akner [01:03:04]:

Yeah. And just thinking that Wait. Just thinking of how could I use both the peel peel or the seed or this leaf sort And then I'm trying to see, like, my company health and even if it's if you're in the corporate world, maybe you already have the same kind of pro production thing where you can just help add creativity into how could we use that better at my youth shop or In my shoe store or whatever, what what could we do when we know we're sometimes producing this mismatch of of Sweden in like, logistically, you know, Miss Nat, how can we, like, prepare for that and, and take care and have a partnership in place? So then we don't have to rush into it and be like, oh, can someone please take this? You know? Yeah. Start to plan. I have If you have a plan for it, then then it's a really easy setup to get a a partnership for. But you but you need creative partners Taking a having, a relationship that they care about to help find the right people to work with for these. And especially when when you're on a bigger scale, If I have 4 cauliflowers, it's more easily for me to find someone to use them. If I have 4 tons, then I need a bigger Friend.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:04:20]:

A bigger friend. Yeah. Yeah. A bigger friend or like I it's funny. I was saving my this is a good example going back to avocado pits. I was saving my avocado pits in the house. And, the 1st time I used them to dye, I realized it wasn't gonna be a strong enough color with the small number I had. So I started thinking, Okay.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:04:38]:

Who uses a lot of avocados and it's like Mexican restaurants or smoothie restaurants? And I happen to know the organic smoothie guy in town and so I asked him and he's like, yeah. And it took him a while to get his team into the habit of saving the avocado pits instead of throwing them in Trash. And for a while, he was digging in the trash or making people dig in the trash to pull them back out again because they would forget. It was so automatic. Like, the trash is right next to you. Cut the avocado, take the pit out, drop it off. But then, You know, eventually, he hands me giant bags of avocado pits. So that was that was a little bit of a scaling up bigger friend.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:05:14]:

And then if I need more, I can go to a bigger friend.

Corina Akner [01:05:18]:

Yeah. So there's something called the social, corporate corporate social responsibility, CSR.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:05:24]:

Mhmm.

Corina Akner [01:05:24]:

And it's where companies invest in something that's usually tangenting or outside their own company. So they can either support the women football or something different than what they're doing, or they can support support something that's tan tan dating, the same field that they're in?

Missy Singer DuMars [01:05:40]:

Tangential.

Corina Akner [01:05:41]:

Yeah. Tangential. Yeah. Thank you. So I'm my new step 2 in my business that I didn't I forgot to say before is to help companies after they've done a workshop with me, and they understand this, like, complexity and, like, oh, I didn't know that was the problem with the bread industry, or how does that look in the, say, in the car industry that I'm in or so after they get this kind of sensitive sensitizing experience Mhmm. It's To add on to that company's CSR budget to help create projects for, for example, farmers because all their employees eat, so we they need so food is always a relevant CSR tangent. Mhmm. So connecting think companies to people who actually don't have the money to do the product development or the support product development, and have bigger companies who can't do too much Change for the integrity of their own company supports these farmers who are in desperate need of help to Take better care of their yield or to be creative in new ways, where usually the farmer already sits on the knowledge of what to do, but they can't find the money to invest In the investigation of logistics or partnerships or other things.

Corina Akner [01:06:50]:

So so you do the companies who sensitize themselves and understand And get them to pay for and help finance the development that we need to be better at producing, Plastics or biofuel or other things or just more food for ourselves to get more self resilience and build more Sensitive systems where we care for the product. We get paid for the product. We help the farmers who are very struggling in our community, because they cannot do food tech. And the investment money going into food tech, it's So it's not fair that the farmers already producing food, don't get 1 single percent of the money going into food tick. Yeah. Yeah. So it's such uneven world. And the food the farmers are really the the soil gurus that we need to, Yeah.

Corina Akner [01:07:41]:

We we need to have them still investigating in the in this investing their time in the soil for us. Otherwise, we don't have food or materials or energy Yeah. In the future. Yeah. Well, as

Missy Singer DuMars [01:07:55]:

a small scale farmer, I'm gonna say thank you for saying that. And I'm Network. I have last 2 questions for you. Well, maybe 3 questions. 1 is that it Dawns on me, as we've been talking, I know the UN, I think yesterday or 2 days ago, just came out with their newest Climate report pretty much saying it's serious, it's urgent folks, we got to do something, and the only way we're gonna do something is if we collaborate on a global scale. And I feel like what you're doing in your small scale in Sweden is really a pathway to those kinds of projects. But I'm curious if you've seen that, if you have a thought about that, you know, the A report from the UN and what they're saying and and how we can

Corina Akner [01:08:43]:

thing. We kind of have a singular approach to sustainability thing still. It's like, How can Sweden become more sustainable? Or how can the my company? Or how can my lifestyle? Like, how can I exclude waste from my world? Or you know? So we're we're kinda stuck in In our own system in front of us. And Mhmm. We need people to step out and understand that we're in a big system together.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:09:06]:

On the planet.

Corina Akner [01:09:07]:

On the planet. Yeah. So we're so the same solutions that we tried in in France or in Italy or wherever or in Iran, they won't work or might work in Sweden as well. So we need to share success stories and also share failures so we don't Continue going into the same loops with all these people who want to change and want to partake in developing a future that we have to adapt to. So by using all this amazing power of people who want to change and putting their efforts in the right place and sharing knowledge on where that place is. What is it? You know? Is it collecting eggshells or avocados or whatever it is? How how can we Scale it up and make a a actual dent in, the the cotton fabric or, you know, reusing something instead of how can we How can we join forces? Because maybe we're 10 of us collecting whatever this peels or whatever it is. And then if we would go together, we could actually Make a product and and put that in somewhere and pick something out. So it's not just because a lot of it kinda stays on a small scale, and it has a very like, it's Really, it creates a lot of meaning for the individual, and it's a good showcase of what we need.

Corina Akner [01:10:24]:

But the the scale to actually change So many systems that are really producing so much waste and microplastics and just destroying so many systems around us. They need us to who understand this, the small scale world to zoom out and, apply that same kind of thinking in a corporate setting as well.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:10:45]:

Well, I expect to hear you speaking at the UN about this topic someday for sure, but, truly. And, I love that you're thinking that way. And to me, that thinking is the feminine. I mean, one of the aspects of masculine Thinking, and I truly believe we need both masculine and feminine. I know I focus on feminine thinking a lot in this podcast, because we live in a very masculine, designed world. But the linear, the, solo solo focus that you're talking about, the singular focus, That's a very masculine way of thinking, and there are times that is super important and super valuable. Like, when you need to focus on one thing and get it done, Being able to have a singular focus is really valuable without getting distracted. But women naturally, and I think this goes way deep in our DNA, women naturally are, multifocused, and we think on that scale, we're running a household.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:11:43]:

We have multiple children. We're trying to keep everybody out of the fire and cook dinner for later, and, You know, men's clothes for tomorrow and 10 other things, and so there is a natural way within the feminine To think on that more interdependent, scale and style of thinking and tracking saying that, the masculine is really like, okay. I'm gonna focus on this thing, and I'm gonna track this thing and I wanna

Corina Akner [01:12:12]:

make it cheaper.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:12:13]:

The difference between linear and circular thinking and both are valuable. But I would agree with you that I Think and this is why this podcast is so important to me and why I keep doing it is because bringing this feminine style of thinking and awareness is, to me, what's What's gonna lead us into the future as you can and help us solve these really big global scale problems? So my Last 2 questions. 1 is, Karina, if there's a woman who, has been an inspiration To you in your life or is a current inspiration for you, who who would that be and why?

Corina Akner [01:12:53]:

There are so many women, Providing space for other women, where we focus on working together and not as rivals in this Patriarchy. So I'm surrounded by a lot of really driven entrepreneurs who really want to create the female scene for each and help each other by mentioning each other to to each other. So we're growing. So there's, I really feel a nice trend, of that, where we kind of care for the the system that we're involved in. So I wouldn't I'm not getting a particular face. Yeah. I I think But when

Missy Singer DuMars [01:13:38]:

you run across women Yeah. Entrepreneurs who are focused on bringing women together to grow together and work together. That's that's what really gets you excited and lights you up.

Corina Akner [01:13:48]:

Yeah. Because I think it's Caring for more things than than economy, and that's something that's really people have been there's all and, of course, that this is not a female question, But there's tendencies that there's more females in this kind of social aspects, and there's things around it that they pick up these details and care for those as well. And, Yeah. And I'm I'm really so inspired so many times a week by women who Or have already been been doing things that we're talking about this, you know, the transition into this innovative. And people are like, I've been doing it for 10 years already. I'm right over here. And they haven't got the chance to continue to develop their product because they haven't had the money connected to them or the network or the friendship that men have had in in company structures for many, many years where they have added to each other's business.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:14:40]:

Right. Right.

Corina Akner [01:14:41]:

So yeah. And then yeah. And my mom is a very amazing person to always talk about the aesthetics, of things. So how to How to really always stop and think about the aesthetics there that we're engaging in when when our body Tries to tell us something or learn something or how we're passing our knowledge to each other. So, she's with me a lot as well.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:15:08]:

Nice. Thank you. And do you have any last thought or a message for our listeners, something you'd like them to take away from our conversation, something we didn't talk about that you wish we did get into more. Any last thoughts?

Corina Akner [01:15:24]:

Yeah. That's also a good question. I think being just being proud over the little thing that you're in, that you're naturally interested in right now with whatever it could be. Do that with pride and really, like, celebrate that you care about roasting your own, rollouts or whatever it is, or making your or just that you continue to carry in developing The a craft craft relationship to the world where you know something about about the expectations you have on that system. Be proud of your sensitivities, engaging you in that, and do the thing that's right in front of you. But if you if you can See if that way of thinking can be applied in other ways, that might be a good way for you to be mobilizing other people in the change forward because I really think it's that natural passion we have for the system right in front of us. That he if it keeps me motivated, There's probably a big chance that someone else would be getting motivated by the same driving factors. So what is it that actually makes you interested in it? Stay with that in your process.

Corina Akner [01:16:38]:

And if you can verbalize it too, that's amazing, to your partner or to anyone around you who all who is Like, why do you care so much about rollouts? Like, try to stay within that little thing that you actually naturally just care about. That would be my

Missy Singer DuMars [01:16:54]:

Well, thank you. I needed that reminder of inspiration. You're inspiring me today. Krita, thank you so much for sharing your stories, your perspective, and your recipe with us today. To all of our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode of women in food and got a bit of inspiration for your next meal maybe with aquafaba, mayo, and hummus on the side. As a last request. If you could go over to Itunes or whatever app you're using to listen and give us a rating and review, it's a simple act that really helps me a ton. Once again, thank you for accompanying me on this delicious adventure.

Missy Singer DuMars [01:17:32]:

Join me around the table for our next episode, and get ready to eat.