#20 | Chef Charlie Ray: Eating with Empathy + Mushroom Quiche
Today I talk with Chef Charlie Ray — a Swedish and Black American food creator and seasonal, local food advocate. Learn about her early start foraging for wild mushrooms & berries in Sweden & fishing with sticks & strings off the river banks Norway. From there, we journey with her through the world of vegan fine-dining as she explores food waste and the ethics of dining and into her time in Australia discovering ingredients like salt bush. We talk about how to make choices for yourself that are values-based beyond a general dietary option, the nuance of sustainability, ostrich & emu meat, discovering indigenous foods and more. Along the way, we explore how to combine seasonal ingredients with world cuisines, basics of ethical wild-foraging and some pie crust techniques as she shares her recipe for Mushroom Quiche and how to adapt it to anything you’ve got leftover in your fridge.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Chef Charlie Ray’s Social Media: Facebook, Instagram
Amazon Prime UK Show: World Cook
More about the Swedish cheese: Vasterbottensost
Links to Chef Charlie Ray’s two women inspirations: Nornie Bero & Alexis Nikole (the Black Forager)
Get Business Coaching from Missy at: WomenInFood.net/workwithmissy
Become a member of the Women In Food Community at: WomenInFood.Net/Community
Missy’s Farm Website: CrownHillFarm.com
Missy’s Business Coaching Website: SpiritBizPeople.com
In our commitment accessibility, we’d love to offer polished show notes to help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. However, Women in Food is still a startup with limited resources. So we’re not there yet.
What we can offer are these very imperfect show notes via the Scribie service. The transcription is far from perfect. But hopefully it’s close enough - even with the errors - to give those who aren’t able or inclined to learn from audio interviews a way to participate.
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0:00:04.2 S1: Welcome to another episode of women in food. I'm your hostess, Missy Singer Dumars. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, food, business, and the feminine, each episode, I invite you to sit down with me in my interview guest as we dive into this intersection to spark your food curiosity, share a favorite recipe and give you some fun food explorations along the way, I'm inspired by these women farmers, Shap bakers, cooks, writers, food makers, who all bring their passion for beauty, nourishment, community, pleasure, connection and deep care to others through food. These are women who advocate and take action towards increased food awareness for themselves, their families, and their neighborhoods. Before I introduce today's guest, I have one request, if you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're using to listen and give us a rating and review. It's a simple act. That helps us a ton. Thank you so much. So today, I'm really excited to introduce to you, Chef Charlie Ray, who was a Swedish and Black American traveling creator who love a food started at an early age while foraging for wild mushrooms and berries in Sweden and fishing with sticks and strings off the river banks in foray.
0:01:15.0 S1: Her passion for wild foods and living off the land only grew with age leading her eventually to wild foraging for Michelin restaurant in Iceland where she became grossly aware of the problems with food waste in the Western world, as she shifted focus shift Charlie Ray set on a wild quite literally, journey around the world with a mission to learn about and then bring more equitable indigenous seasonal local foods to every plate she could... Currently, this is in the form of creating a creative space and distillery using wild forage flora as the heart of her botanicals to express the unique qualities of the diverse regions from around the world. In this episode, you'll hear all the stories of her journey is while we chat about empathy and ethics and food, and she shares a delicious recipe that reflects on her early roots foraging wild mushrooms. So chef Charlie Ray, welcome to women in food. I'm so honored and overjoyed to have you join us.
0:02:08.5 S2: Thank you, I'm super excited to be here. And
0:02:10.8 S1: I just have to share for our listeners, we probably had a half an hour of food Keri before I even hit very core button, so I imagine that this is gonna be a rich conversation, an interesting conversation that goes in all kinds of directions... Pre-warning. Pre-morning. Yes. So tell us a little bit more. I think my listeners may not be able to totally picture wild foraging and fishing with sticks and strings before the age of five, tell us a little bit about your early memories and the beginnings of your relationship to food.
0:02:46.5 S2: So we moved to America in 1994 when I was four years old, but we would go back to student and visit every summer, a summer, my mom would... She go back to work for the old restaurant and my grandparents who just take over raising us for the summer, and my grandfather spent one month a year fishing in our way, so he would just take us with him and because we were like five and six, he would just put some fishing wire and a little lure, or just fishing wire and a hook with some feathers on it on a stick that we would find and that would be our fishing pole for the summer, so we just sit off the river banks and put our hooks in with no bate and hopefully we caught something, which we almost never did, but sometimes we're able to catch stuff and we take in Flint on the shower and then we have to throw it back 'cause it was like the size of the palm of a five-year-old and... And then as we got older, my grandfather would make us actual fishing poles and then teach just had a fly fish and then we'd wait out into the water and fly fish with him, and then there are the summers where I call him from Alaska, and we'd compete on who caught the biggest amanat year, him or me.
0:03:58.2 S2: And I caught more, but he was caught bigger.
0:04:01.6 S1: Oh wow, that's interesting. After my listeners, a recent episode, I interviewed Sena of sense Foods, who were talking about she and her family fish in Alaska, but her roots go many, many, many generations to fishing in Norway, I believe she said also so I was so interested to have the two of you talking about that a little bit
0:04:22.3 S2: As... Samithi is large and the northern finance.
0:04:28.4 S1: Indeed, indeed. So in our conversations before hitting the record button, it sounds like part of what you learned in those early years and going back in summers to visit was a different lifestyle around food and eating that you learned from visiting your grandparents and go to Sweden and Iceland and Norway, tell us a little bit more about that difference 'cause I've interviewed other guests like how they're in Japan, where she talked a lot about how children grow up learning in school about where their food comes from in their lunch box meals and things like that, and so it sounds like you kinda have a different Early Childhood around being in relationship to food...
0:05:12.7 S2: Yeah, so I grew up, let's say throughout the school year in California, and every summer we'd go back to Sweden and... Yeah, it's extremely different here, it's like Here's food. Nobody knows where it comes from. There's not much connection to the fire hamburger, that hamburgers beef, that beef came from a count that's not talked about in American school systems. It's a very disconnect from land food and what you're consuming, and then in Sweden, I never went to school there until University, so we would go and mushrooms, we wait out to the forest for mushrooms if you want, macro, then we would actually go fishing for mackerel who went in salmon, then we go to Norway and fish for salmon. So everything was very closely connected, and my grandmother would do all the cleaning of all mushrooms, and then my grandfather would fill all the fish and cook that up for us, and He has this set recipes and his cured salmon Or Diablo. It's definitely something that we look forward to every year, and our shantaram sandwiches that my grandmother would make on plated, which is this round bread that's packed of butter, and it was like nothing healthy about it except for the fact that it's delicious, like onions, mushrooms on this bread, and we had that for breakfast after being at foraging all the day before, and it's just...
0:06:37.4 S2: It's things that you can't... You can't get... You can't express fully, if you haven't grown up with it.
0:06:42.9 S1: Right, I'm gonna totally take us right into the nitty-gritty conversation around ethics and empathy and food, which is our conversation for today, because you said something interesting right there, and we'll get back to the rest of your story, so listeners don't worry the rest of... Charlie raise story is so fascinating, and we'll get into it, but I have to go down the staff, you talked about there's nothing healthy in it, and you said that phrase, and I know you and I have already had some discussions about what to find healthy or not healthy or clean food or not clean food, and I feel like this is a good point to get into that discusses me, that discussion a little bit, because I believe that there's a lot more nuance to those words and those words when we see an American culture have become to mean certain things and represent certain things, and with it carries a lot of judgment, a lot of othering... A lot of negativity. A lot of division. So was interesting, 'cause I heard you say nothing healthy, but it's like... Who knows what healthy... What does healthy even mean anymore... Right.
0:07:56.6 S2: In that aspect, with that particular sandwich that my grandmother would make fresh, it was you take something, a wild forage with the mushrooms and then pick the Indians from the garden, and then you just doubted butter and like a bunch of salt, so in that aspect, she takes away the healthiest, but obviously, living off the land and from the garden is inherently healthy, but then if you take it and you pack a full of butter and then it just gets... Half the flavor is better. It becomes a little different, but then you're right, although a grass-fed local Hamad butter I adventure is actually very nutrient-packed, that is true.
0:08:37.7 S1: Good for you as well. If we wanna assign good or bad post things, which is always hard to hard to avoid and hard to do at same time...
0:08:47.2 S2: Butter is not inherently bad. That is correct, you... You're right on that aspect.
0:08:53.2 S1: And I know you and I could go way far down on this, the biggest example, at least in the United States, that we see these days, and I think it's going further in the world, is the whole vegan meat eating to be... And what's halt for people and healthy for the planet, and healthy for the animals or not, this is kind of, I think one of the core discussions of our core issues of ethical eating that people get hooked on the ocean.
0:09:26.6 S2: Let's talk about that.
0:09:27.7 S1: Let's talk about that. What are your thoughts on that? Tell us more about your thoughts on it.
0:09:32.9 S2: I was a vegan chefs for two years working with an E-Board winning company called that, the Sustainable Food Lab, where we took food waste and made it into 59 vegan food and used food as an example for circular systems and how to create less waste in the world at the time, it made sense to us where we're taking waste and we're making it into fine dining food, and so like, See, this is not waste, this is how we create less vice, but using the way that we produce more or less, but as we time it on, we realize this is not the way to do it. We can't use ways to solve the waste problem we have to create less way by going local to
0:10:11.8 S1: Such a great point. I just wanna point out the way you're talking, that thinking, and some of my listeners know I coach businesses a lot, and one of the things I look at is what problem are we actually trying to solve, and I feel like a lot of the food solutions I see like hydroponics and all these things are maybe not solving the right problem, just like you notice... Great, it's great to find a way to use the way, but how can we reduce the waste were you making in the first place, like what is the actual root problem... I have businesses come to me like, Oh, I wanna do a social media campaign or whatever, and it's like, What problem are you trying to solve? And it's something totally different, and there's a solution that actually solves that better than the one they were looking at. Recently, I was thinking it's kind of like looking at business or any decisions you're doing... Like a functional medicine doctor. You're awesome, Oisin physicians go to the root cause, not treat the symptoms as kind of the... Not solving the problem of the symptoms, of solving the problem that created the symptom, exactly.
0:11:20.9 S1: Talking about it was kind of the same thing.
0:11:24.0 S2: Yeah, very much so. And so we decided that instead of focusing on food waste that we were actually just no collaborations with, because we were more focused within the vegan world, and in Sweden, we started using Badawi is a... She makes Chickasaw P Tampa because the LP's growing Sweden, where Chick Apis do not. So a lot of lentils grow in Sweden were certainly games do not IT, so we started just going with nobody, Scania, which is another company and see which means Nordic ingredient. So they're all grown there to having less of a world footprint, creating less wave 'cause they're dry goods and then being able to use that in cooking and elevate our local stuff rather than importing or using the waste that's already been imported from other countries. So working with in being in food for that long, I realize that veganism is actually not the solution when it comes to solving sustainability as a whole, and a lot of vegans say, I'm a vegan because I care about animals on the vegan because I don't want animals to suffer, but at the same time, in places like Sweden, where I did my degree in homeostatic is in the north.
0:12:41.1 S2: And it's like the highest concentrations of vegans in Sweden, it's also a place where nothing grows, so everything they eat more than likely is imported from somewhere else, so when they're eating avocado toast and drinking almond milk in the middle of the winter dam near in the Arctic circle, you don't care about the ethics of animals, because the animals you're exporting at that point are the ones across the planet that you can't see and their humans. So if you would have just actually that local butcher or that local hunter that shot a wild moose, and then you would have had that with some locally rootes or something that doesn't have as wide of a footprint and still gives you the nutrients that you need is actually more sustainable for the planet, for your body and for yourself than it is for just not seeing an Animal Day killed in front of you, but rather than, I guess... Exploiting humans on the other side of the world. Yeah, I have to say.
0:13:46.9 S1: Yeah, well, you're talking to men, you're talking to the choir here, but it totally makes sense. And in a minute, I wanna ask you about how do we translate that to that perspective to my listeners, we're trying to figure out in the American, mostly American home or whatever, how to make more sustainable choices and also live their own values. But it was interesting you're talking about that because I recently, for the first time ever, but are two lambs on my farm, and it was really, really hard to do, and at the same time, I feel like so much more deep reverence for the sacredness of that meet when I'm eating it, and I actually eat it less often because I'm more mindful of it, not to be vegan, but it's such a sacred thing that that life gave me, and it's so special that I wanna savor it and use it mindfully, treat it respectfully when I do use it. And so that really gave me a different understanding of that experience that I hadn't had before, 'cause I never counted or anything like that to have that experience, and I think it's kind of part of what you're talking about that when you raise the animal yourself or you're near to it somehow or closer, with less steps in between to it, there's actually a much different...
0:15:12.0 S1: There's actually more respect of the sacredness of that life, I think, than less...
0:15:16.9 S2: Yeah, where like I'm not sitting here bashing the vegan lifestyle as a whole, I'm just saying if you're doing it for ethical reasons, but then you practice on practices, maybe rethink it, but then also on top of that, the industrialized meat industry, there's no argument. That's horrible. So you can avoid both by being more ethical in your eating and consumption by going either raising yourself, which most of you are not gonna do, going to a local farm reducing your meat intake and only going pay the extra cost for the local farm. Meat, eating less meat in general, and then also thinking about where your vegetables come from and what season that they're in, as you were asking about how Americans will adapt their diet and continue to hold their ethics. Same thing there. One thing that I tell people is avocados, I'm from California lead avocados. A lot of them, they are very, let's say, unsustainable to grow, but at the same time when they're in season, it's fine, but then you wanna have avocados in the middle of winter that a ship has a round the world and one-third or two-thirds of those avocados or bananas are thrown in the trash just because of transport reasons and they're very short shelf life, so do you just eat sustainably...
0:16:33.1 S2: I'm sorry, eat seasonally. That takes care of a lot of stuff, but then also if you want milk is in you, everything from deserts to your coffee to your cereal, rather than having all the milk or macadamia milk, which is a feely expensive for your wallet and for the planet. There are different alternatives like flax milk or oat milk that you can use, and here in California, we have Cally oats, which is a California oatmeal brand, and when you got grow without you wanting to do anything, they just, they're... So you chop the weed and then you make email, whereas if you're doing a outpaced small, you have to grow an entire tree before you get one, not to the amount of water that goes into just growing that one nut, then versus how many notes you have to use in the words you make one leader on the milk. It doesn't make sense to do that at that point. If you go to a local dairy farm and they pasteurized their own milk, that would be the better option, or just get Fox smoker or oat milk, which are more locally produced, or learn how to make it yourself.
0:17:44.8 S2: But I know that most people are not gonna do that. That's not something that is sustainable for everyone's lifestyle, which I understand...
0:17:51.9 S1: Yeah, I mean, there's so many different layers of sustainability it... There's planet sustainability, sustainability, family, sustainability. Exactly the... As I think the thing that we're really talking about here, and I think about a lot is industrialized food, and I think the argument has become met versus vegan, we're really... I think it should be industrialized food versus local seasonal food.
0:18:20.9 S2: But then there's also regenerative farming and rearing requires and most and plans to live in a symbiotic relationship with humans, and when those animals are either a, for lack of better terminology, no longer useful, or can the longer do their job... Are you supposed to just let them die and go to waste because you're a vegan, or do you put that into your diet as well, consume less meat and live in the symbiotic relationship with the planet yourself and the animals, because the symbiotic relationship is not sustainable for yourself, and the planet and the animals. Financially, obviously, we can't all do that, but we can try to make these small changes in our lives, like going from cow milk and all the move to oatmeal instead of enjoying avocados in the middle of winter that shit. Halfway around the world, only enjoy them when do they're in season? And get it from a local source hand, then you can look forward to it to each season rather than just having it readily available, I guess, and it's the end time...
0:19:23.4 S1: Exactly, and that is the thing about seasonal eating, and we live in such a modern convenience culture where people at least in America, have gotten so used to expecting to get anything at any time of the year, there isn't even a knowledge base of seasonality, and there's an expectation that I can have whatever I want whenever I want it. So people are not so interested in eating asparagus for six weeks while it's in season, even if you're getting bored with it, because that's what's available in early spring, early to mid-spring, the...
0:19:55.0 S2: But that's also the time, it's most nutrient dense as well, to actually getting a tie.
0:20:00.7 S1: The time it's Friar best flavor, etcetera. Yeah, exactly, that's what I think. I was just starting to write a blog post about carrots and how I'd love to grow them in for fall into winter as opposed to spring carrots, and a lot of people think about spring cares and you can grow a spring couch, but there's nothing like the flavor of a fall fall winter carcass, when the weather gets cold, they get a sweet and delicious and Chris...
0:20:24.6 S2: It was sweeten, for example. We just naturally eat seasonally, certain things, we were definitely industrialized country, don't get me wrong, but certain things like Swedish strangers, you cannot get them out of season chancellors, you cannot get the menses in blueberries, like scenario can buy them from other countries, so we all sit there and we wait every year waiting to buy Swedish ones because it doesn't go dark during the summer and it never gets lighter in the winter, so it's a very different way of living, but because... So in the sun of the sky, and these plants and animals or plants are growing, it's developing all these sugars in each thing, so the sun hit the leaves and create the Corel or do the photo Syosset creates all these natural sugars and create... And create and create a although out the day and then at night, the same... It's not photos, it's called something else, they take all those sugars and they use those to grow bigger, so it was time to get start, they take the sugars and utilize them to grow bigger, like the strawberry Copart, Carrasco everything. And then during the day, it does the same thing and it does it all see a long until you're ready to harvest them when Sweden...
0:21:38.2 S2: It doesn't get dark, so it actually just developed all these sugars and our strawberries and erases a blues are significantly smaller, but 10 times more flavor has just about sugars and it never uses it to grow, so we look forward to these every year and just to share joy that you get from these fresh Swedish grown 'cause it's... Yeah, it's all naturally grown straws and blueberries and everything interest, it's un-comparable to these things that you purchase year around, shipped in some other countries, drowning.
0:22:06.6 S1: Greenhouses, this might be a say tangent, but as you're talking about having Dalian night all winter, I was wondering about the seasonal cycle of egg lane, because I know a lot of people think, Oh, it's the warmer temperatures that costigan Starling eggs in spring here in North America, but actually it's the number of hours of daylight that trigger the hormones that say, make babies now. And so I'm kind of curious if you know anything about... I don't, unfortunately... Gosh, that's gonna be so... Something we'll have to find out. Yes.
0:22:45.0 S2: That's what I... Ethnolinguistic, I've lived on a few farms, but mostly in California, so that's where I learned about... My chicken knowledge has been more California bettenhausen, mankind, Scandinavian base when it comes to... I had killed chicken myself once when I was living on a farm, it was definitely a different experience, and like you were saying, killing the animals that are on your own farm, you're not taking out the chicken breasts, throwing the rest away because you're on a lean meat diet, like you're using the skin for something, using the bones for something, making sure that you get a breath out of something, you're never gonna let a single part of it go to waste because it's something that's closer to your heart, rather than just saying, Oh, I only want chicken breast or... Or I only chicken thighs or I don't need chicken skin, you know, you eat all of it, which automatic becomes more sustainable in a circular food system of your own personal diet rather than just eating chicken breasts because it's close to your heart. You know what I mean?
0:23:47.2 S1: You, you absolutely. Well, yeah, I know what you mean. Yes, absolutely. So I wanna go back to the restaurant where I find it really intriguing that you are doing fine dining with perceived waste... Perceive food waste, which is really interesting. Can you give the listeners an example of what that might be
0:24:12.9 S2: Every single day we would make the menu and every single night we would throw it away, so we're using everything from what we're using wild piece that were shocked. Whereas we're sitting there sizing it for the gas, we're picking up bullets, we are using things that we went in Watford ourselves with little welcome snacks and everything, and I just thought it was so cool, but we'd also make her own fresh butter, so we formed the butter in room temperature for two days. And then when they separate the way and the fat and the... With the butter, every single day we did this and every single night we threw everything away just to redo it the next day again, because they say, Oh, fresher or whatever, rather than cooking things, in my opinion, saving and not cooking that his breast... Because we might only use two and a half rather than the four, five, six that we cooked, but it doesn't matter 'cause they're not gonna cook it one day, then you see the next, which I do understand that, but even in the butter... Could I set out at room temperature that's whipped and then be folded into the new fresh other the next day, so I would actually take it and hide it in the fridge so I could not waste it, put it back to it the next day.
0:25:24.4 S2: And I'm just like, the stings to your method was not that that's what got me into food waste, is I ended up finding these group of humans that were dump studying to help feed refugees, and I was like, Wow, I would actually be really interested in that. I've never really heard of that before at that time in my life, and when I went the first time, I cried at the sheer amount of perfectly good food that was being tossed in the trash because of these perceived expiration dates, while there are other families, hundreds of them just starving. And the Canford food. So the first time I went to a diving with the anarchist kitchen, I just cried. I'm like, This is disgusting. And that's what set me on my spiral of How do I sell all the food waste problems in the Westernized world, but while also working alongside a kitchen that I was using these exquisite ingredients and tossing them in the trash every evening... Right
0:26:20.9 S1: At. It's quite a paradox to live with at the same time...
0:26:24.9 S2: Well, it grossed, I don't want to serve. I don't have that much of a desire to serve the haves I need to help... Have guess that's a good way to put it. Or lack of better way to put it in.
0:26:39.0 S1: And I see like this awareness is not actually new wisdom, it's actually really deeply ancient wisdom. I know, I feel like that as I dive deeper and depart into having this farm life and my listeners... No, I didn't grow up with farms or farm life, and I've been here six, a little over six years, and just learning to save everything and in the least food scraps go into the compost pile, which then go back into the garden. What I really, really, really can't use, but I've just learned like you and I were talking off recording before about onion skin, it's like anyone who stays in my house now knows that they all get scolded if they throw away onion skins because I use them to die my wall, and then it goes into the compost, which then becomes beautiful soil for the garden to grow next year or two years, onions to start all over again, and the cycle is the same thing with very special scraps go into my freezer for the next pot of soup, carrot tops go into the freezer for our future... Soups or pastors or whatever. I mean, just everything I can...
0:27:50.0 S1: And that's not something I grew up with. That's something I've learned. And then like you also, how can I use the skin... How can I use the phones? All those things I just yesterday made of soup with all the veggies that were scraps that were in the freezer, and the carcass from the Turkey, from Thanksgiving, and all the Leah. And that's the thing, like in our Westernized world, we just see like, it's very linear, you buy it from a grocery store, you consume what you can, and then you throw the rest of the trash and it all comes... Rapist every step in the way, and it's just... I don't know how we got to this point.
0:28:27.2 S2: But it's... Once you're aware of it, it's really something that's hard to unseat.
0:28:32.6 S1: It is hard to use it. I can tell you my thoughts on how we got to this place is a bigger, global humanity journey that we've been on, and this really goes to the roots of this podcast being about food business and the feminine, is that our journey into this linear lifestyle has been a journey of the masculine, and it's beginning to shift to a journey of the feminine, and the Verney of the feminine is about cycles and circular awareness, and there are times for both, I don't wanna like masculine bath, 'cause that's not what I'm about either, but... And there are times to have really strong linear thinking on the time, Secular thinking, and I feel like what we're starting to see is this transition into a feminine secular way of thinking, I mean, we as women go through a cycle every 28 or so days, we live a cycle, if we tune into it.
0:29:31.6 S2: It's built into our bodies to be in a cycle, and then the mother has it every year from spring, fall, winter, summer, that's also cycles, and if we just live within the cycles and that's a symbiotic relationship, like veganism isn't the answer, industrialize me complexes. To feed the masses isn't the answer, it's just trying to make this globalized community, Conor community. Again, we have it back in the day, and then we lost it with industrialization, and now we're seeing that throw back to it, we're trying to gain that knowledge that we lost throughout the years, and that knowledge was existent with my grandparents still, for example, or their parent so it wasn't that long ago, but then the next generation just wasn't interested because when it was industrialization, global vision, and then the next one wasn't interested, and then now we're coming back to that, so it wasn't that far of a turnaround, but we lost so much in that short period of time and... And these large companies have destroyed so much the planet that makes it unusable for growing stuff now, that's why so production, for example, a lot of swapped cation is made to feed animals then on talk with that obviously, soybeans and Anton all at this white production use and deplete the land, and then rather than have different crops every year that can actually replenish a land and make it healthy and they just move it to the next pod over, and then that one that was used rivals unusable for 100 years, and it just becomes this cycle of destroying the planet, trying to also just glorify this mass production and it's not sustainable, we gotta move back to eating less meat or more local need filed meets, not overfishing, not industries, the industry, but also being vegan is also not the answer, because we need the animals to create the somatic relationship with the planet that growth vegetables.
0:31:32.4 S2: Right.
0:31:32.9 S1: Right. You've also, speaking about circling back to older ways of food, you've also had the great privilege of learning about some indigenous food ways in various parts of the world, right. Yes.
0:31:55.5 S2: I've worked closely with some aboriginal chefs in Australia, and that's where I was able to learn about the local floor and fatal where I was staying at the time. Alvin, Australia is circling it, the chef actually from de Rader mob, which is from New South Wales, but he was living in melon and just learning how to use Model seed and kangaroo and Wallaby and saltbush, and all these really cool dinos plants to the area or to Australia, and then using that and food and how all amazing... You don't need to sell your food if you're using selfish because it's literally that if a salty bush and you can dehydrate it and let it and make it into the salt that you're using, Walls has nuances is like chocolate and cocoa and cinnamon, all at the same time... And it's a native plant backrest, and one thing that I found interesting was when the colonizers came in to Australia and they tried to plant stuff on the land, they ripped up all of the native plants and they planted all their things and their plans that they planted just Connolly destroy, they never grew because the salts in the land got too high, 'cause the native saltbush goes around the coast, and as the salt saturate the land, that's how the selfish pros...
0:33:18.3 S2: It actually sucks, upset sores that salt in order to grow itself, which makes the rest of the land actually habitable for the... The native plants, of course, a colonized know this, 'cause working with indigenous people seem ridiculous at the time, apparently, and so therefore they weren't able to grow their own crops, and then just like just seeing how you need to work with the land in order to create the best sabbatical ship to humans. Plants and animals. That's glaringly in that one situation. Yeah.
0:33:48.6 S1: I'm so curious, can you tell us more about selfish... I've never heard of it. What part of the plant to you use... What part of it, or how do you use it?
0:33:58.0 S2: The leaves literally like you're walking along the coast and you see selfish and it looks like there's a light opaque green, and then you just take it and you put in your mouth and you're chewing on a salt eleaf. Wow, it's really cool.
0:34:11.1 S1: So to cook with it, do they dry it or to like a dry and herb or a condo...
0:34:18.5 S2: I feel like you kinda use it in a similar way to, let's say Bailey, you can make some bush oil, you can dry it out to use it as a belief in stuff, you can... I used it, dehydrated it, And then I blind it to make an actual assault, but a mob in Mau, which is this restaurant in oban and is run by one, and she's an amazing Aboriginal Terra chef, using 100% Aboriginal ingredients in her entire restaurant. I admire everything that she's done, she's been featured on a lot of things, she does a sales Chinatown that she puts it on a estate, so I've had an EMU stake was selfish some cherry with fried cane. It was fried sugar cane. How amazing. Does that sound tasting
0:35:09.2 S1: And different actually, it's funny 'cause my sister just texted me out of the blue, I think you should have an emo on your farm and like... I don't think so. That's funny that you said
0:35:18.5 S2: That Martin went to a couple of mid-life sanctuaries, and then even US Russia
0:35:27.0 S1: That are the ones that are like to screen. Yes, yes, yeah. I know a lot of artists and a setting, they're super pretty. They're like the equivalent of 20 or 30 chicken eggs. Of course, speak farmer. I pay attention to the eggs of animals, can you look really pretty and really cool, but you have to be really, really hungry to cook, really hungry to... I tell people about that, about a goose, you have to be really hungry to eat a goose, but an email ag is for a whole party.
0:35:54.6 S2: I haven't actually had the pleasure, but I have had a steady which is larger with a ostrich farm in Australia as well, and both as egg and ostrich meat, which is very unique, but also really cool, but just using these animals that are part of the land naturally, there's a great ears have heard of that. No, so it's literally like the Australian soldiers fighting off hundreds and hundreds of emus that were ciliated and one...
0:36:25.7 S1: Oh, awesome. I like that
0:36:27.4 S2: It's not... Not kidding, you can Google it, there's a thing about the EMAS and it's a...
0:36:34.0 S1: Notitia interesting, now I see. I've been told if you're thinking about ostrich me or something like that, it's better to go for the EU than the ostrich 'cause they're a little smaller, maybe
0:36:46.8 S2: I'm not... So on that comes to sustainable reasons, either way, they're both prehistoric dinosaur words are chickens. Really? So they're both EMU to me, taste more like be for ostracism unique. Oh, interesting. I don't know of the cuts that I had, I couldn't tell you any of that, but the ostrich taste like iPad or flaming, but more rich. It was like a deeper, darker flavor, like purple, and then more rich in flavor than the beef and the EU task try to more or less just really nice, it wasn't really game or anything, but we as like kanger versus quality, both are pretty day, really lean, and both of those, they live obviously naturally in Australia.
0:37:41.4 S1: So a moment I'm gonna ask, we're gonna talk more about that because that really relates to some of your current projects that are super fun and exciting, I wanna get into and get your recipe for a wild mushroom tech but before we do that, I wanna take a quick break and share a bit more about how women and food is supported, as you know, I care a lot about food and land, and this includes the success of food and land-based businesses. I believe that sustainability goes beyond the land to how we grow ourselves and our business at the same time, I've noticed that many folks in the food and land space have fantastic concepts, strong passion and deep care, but still struggle to market and run their business in ways that can make the impact the Envision while also providing for themselves at the same time, I always say that most farmers I know are great farmers, but deter... Avoid sales and marketing. I'm the other way around, farming is my learning curve, but I know business really well, besides hosting this podcast and running my farm, I'm a business coach having coached hundreds of entrepreneurs from across the world in a range of industries to mindfully grow their businesses.
0:38:50.9 S1: So if you're listening to this podcast as a food or land-based entrepreneur who's looking to what the next phase of growth for your businesses, this kind of coaching could be for you, if you'd like support in this way, go to my website to have a 90-minute session with me, the website is Women in food dot network with Missy. And I'll put the link in the show notes as well. I want every listener to thrive, and particularly land and food businesses to thrive, because honestly, I believe your business success is our future. Once again, that's Women in Food Network with Missy. Our local Gulp Buffalo has been a wonderful supporter of women in food programming almost since the beginning video series in 2020. Did you know that you can search specifically for women-owned businesses on Yelp, Support your local women-owned businesses by visiting them in writing a Yelp review, download the Yelp app now and use the filter for women-owned business. So chef, let's talk about... 'cause you've got some interesting projects going on right now, one of a China is very exciting that's gonna... That's just released. That really is about what you've been talking about featuring indigenous, local seasonal food in different parts of the world and how different cuisines traditionally are about those foods.
0:40:15.5 S1: So why don't you tell us more about what's exciting you right now.
0:40:19.1 S2: I'm assuming you're talking about the show... Yeah, so talking about the show. Yeah.
0:40:24.1 S1: So I was with... You guys can watch with Amazon Prime, it's called World cook, and then I'll put a link, I'll put a link in the show notes for everyone who wants to go watch, and
0:40:35.4 S2: I got up to semi-finals, and the chefs I lost too, which is Justin from Australia and Helen, so Jamaica. To absolutely amazing chefs. Me and Justin are planning a project in the future, and that we're super excited about, that has to do with our bottom line of local and wild foods as well, but yes, I got third place or similar final place, and I competed for Sweden using my traditional techniques and products from my country, in my land and representing my culture and adapting that in different places in Austria and one episode in Italy, in another episode. And in London, in the first episode.
0:41:20.2 S1: So a lot of places, do you have a favorite beside your home life, do you have a favorite place that you like to cook from and... Four. Oh
0:41:30.2 S2: No, I do, obviously, a lot of Nordic cuisine because that's where I'm from. But wherever I'm located on the planet at that current time, changes seasonally available, which changes what I wanna cook at, what land I wanna represent. So I don't have menus, when you book me as a private chef, I don't have many... As I work with you, I suggest things, I say, Let's go more French, let's go more Indian, let's go more Caribbean. It depends on what's available and what we wanna highlight and how I wanna represent that, and I just work with my clients to put forward the best possible outcome of their event with food as the highlight.
0:42:10.9 S1: Yeah, so this is an interesting thing because... And I've talked about this on the podcast before, is that there's two ways to stop thinking about making a meal, one is pick the recipe and then go find the ingredients, the others look what's available, and then figure out what to make with it, and that's kind of what you're talking about, and I feel like what's fun is to understand cuisines from all over the world, and then how you can use those with what's locally seasonally available wherever you are. And that's kind of the fun, interesting intersection. So it's not that like, Oh, you live in California, and you have access to what girls in California, so you can only cook California cuisine or I live in upper New York and can only click not northern North American foods, but it's like we can cook different cuisines and how do we look at what's available and Susan now, and then what use cuisines can we play with with that?
0:43:08.5 S2: Exactly, so right now, I have a dinner coming up and it's December, so what's available? It's a lot of brevetted. So we wanna represent those resale in the best way possible. I love Beirut because big, bold colors and flavors, and they can adapt to so many different things you can make from a desert to an API or to anything, and a lot of people, especially when they book me specifically don't want holiday food. So can we just not have holiday food, we don't want the tricky in the ham and all that stuff, so I just try to take those and then I could either go Indian and do different... Have a Tories and prices, and do that with what's easily available here, because I boley all my dry ingredients to make my drive pantry more sustainable out of the package, and I both buy everything because it's not like it's gonna go bad. It takes me 10 years to use it, or two months, it's not gonna go bad, it might lose its pungent, but that's about it. So that's how you can play with different cuisines from around the world, to play with spices and seasonings that come dry, and then just walk by
0:44:16.2 S1: It. And actually, one of the things I learned a few years ago is you can actually evoke the essence of a World Cuisine based on what facts you use, I think... Was it Sinatra talks about that in her work. I think that's where I saw it on Reddit. I teach a class on mustard and solid dressing making here on the farm, and I often play games with people of like, Okay, I'm gonna name a country, you tell me what the fat is, or I'm gonna name a fat or oil. And you tell me what part of the world. It's really, it's cuisine is really from... So not just seasons and seasonings and spices, but fats as well as techniques, right. Like the style of cooking, the technique of cooking can all evoke a part of the world, which is fun to play with, and a great way to get curious and creative in the kitchen.
0:45:11.7 S2: Yeah, on one of my favorite seasons is to Mansell early fall when there's just such an abundance of tomatoes and they're super cheap. I suggest go into your local farmers market, buying as many tomatoes as you can and then making PASA, which is a traditional Italian tomato sauce that you preserve and you can keep it all your log and you don't have to buy any to make a sauce for the rest of the year, as long as you buy a season and you walk by it, and then you took...
0:45:35.7 S1: In my pantry, you'll see a lot of trans for the winter in my path, I literally
0:45:41.7 S2: Just took out a batch from from the boiling pot today, like this morning before we start talking... Yeah.
0:45:47.2 S1: It's so funny you say that to me has to... Because I have the few rapping to me it, I was, believe it or not, in December, on my farm and I like every meal right now before they go bad and like, Okay, what can I do with a fresh tomato for... Resonate Festa menu for lunch. Am I having poster or something else tonight for dinner that uses more tomatoes, let me use these last 10 or 12 fresh tomatoes before they go bad. Yeah.
0:46:09.9 S2: For example, representing different cuisines, my family, because I made the fresh tomato, so was had to have a solo or breakfast. So Trisha is an Israeli dishes, were you put all these yummy on. So there's traditional ways and there's difference what I had in my fridge with non-Roma tomatoes and I had some self-Pepper, and then I have my smoke spices and stuff, so I made my tomato base in a big pot, and then once that's cooked in flavor, this reasonably, you like it, you make these little pockets and you drop your eggs into it and you put a lid on, you let the egg cook through and then you eat that with some type of bread.
0:46:48.0 S1: Now, donate have to get out on this dish for a second, it's totally not our recipe plan, but I have to get out on it because being an egg farmer, I mail email my customers a lot of Ag recipes, so I know most aggressive... Do you know the Italian version of Chukchi? A was called 'cause the name is just delightfully fun in and of itself... I do know it's ovo in purgatory, or eggs in purgatory is a regulatory perianth idea, is that there's a lot of mythology. It... But basically, that the red sauce revised its peritonitis like the fires of hell, and then the eggs, you drop them in and they're clear and they become purified in purgatory as they turn white, 'cause my representative of purity. And so I always, when I share that recipe, I always share it that way is in purgatory, 'cause it's just fun, and I found some websites and things that talk more about the dish, but the same idea, you drop the is in a red, but I'm assuming that I want that on how to Groves as the basis or complementary, so it'll be like More attain flavors, and then to the end, it's not mushrooms and alive in it, which becomes more least Israeli feature laboratory at...
0:48:05.8 S1: And I've seen a green schist, which is...
0:48:08.6 S2: I see green and why I've never tried them, but I have seen them, but those are different ways to represent during tomato season, how you represent different cultures in different countries during the season that you're currently living in, depending on where in the world you are the... That's what you were saying. Yeah.
0:48:23.4 S1: And that's where preserving comes into, like you were talking about by making sauces and things, that's how we can carry season into... 'cause there is always the question, Well, I live somewhere where there's a really strong winter, nothing grows in the winter, how am I supposed to eat all winter, is you take the time to preserve things for winter or other people around you have taken that time or eating local proteins that are either dry goods like lentils or beans or whatever, or going to local farms that picture 'cause they put your author winter, especially chickens. So there are different ways to go about even seasonally and locally, no matter where in the world you are, and I live in the Arctic Circle or lived in scan aviation of the hardest places to do it. We're talking about food, and I'm like, I wanna get to this recipe, 'cause you know what's gonna be cooked in my house this week... For sure. If you're sharing with us today a wild central mushroom, Keele.
0:49:18.5 S2: I said growing up in gather and forest, my grandparents, every fall we would wait out into the forest and I had my spot, my grandpa, his immature sister at her is like, Oh... So just like I'll go check your spot today, see if it looks good, and then we'll wander off into the deep for us to check the other spots, if it's good growing, and then we bring home kilos and kilos with wild centrals, and my grandmother with a spend the time cleaning them, 'cause we were kids and couldn't be bothered, and then we would always have these central sandwiches which were delicious, but you need so many mushrooms to make one sandwich, so I just figured out a different way to stretch the mushroom further and will not figure out a way, I teaches a cab, you can use a lot less mushrooms to still have just as much flavor and enjoy the Charles in multiple ways, it's not just this delicious Butterfield, say, Which set grandmother would make. And so I did it into a kind something we didn't really touch on yet, but if we're gonna have a conversation about ethics and empathy in food, I feel like we have to have a quick discussion here about ethics of wild forging.
0:50:33.9 S2: Yes.
0:50:35.6 S1: Won't you give us a uniform, anyone who's gonna go well for it, first of all, don't forward for mushrooms unless you really, really, really, really, really know what you're doing. It's dangerous.
0:50:44.5 S2: It's very dear. You should die. And that's not an exaggeration, but there's too...
0:50:49.2 S1: Yes, you can do, there's plenty of other delicious things that can be lived for, and there's a way to do it respectfully, mindfully and ethically.
0:50:58.1 S2: Gain knowledge. Talk to a local forager, don't go out alone until you know what you're doing.
0:51:05.1 S1: And don't take everything of any one thing.
0:51:08.1 S2: Yeah, that's the part I was gonna get into is you never clear a spot when I forge for the centrals, for example, I don't take the smallest ones and I leave the root intact. So mushrooms is mycelia, which Mycelium grows underground, it's like a network, and every time one that worked mentone, they pop together and then grow the fruit, which is a mushroom which pops out ground, so it's gonna continue to grow, but you wanna continue to keep those connections, so they continue to grow all year round, and then you can also take these small ones and then I smash them into the ground to the spores spread out, but never take... Never clear location, only take the ones that are sizable enough to eat and... Yeah, that's a good start. And
0:51:54.5 S1: I know what you're doing now, or doing it... Yeah, no, in my region to books. Yeah, in my region here, this discussion comes up every single spring across all the social media platforms of all the chefs and food people I know about ramps, because they take... What is it like seven years to grow and if you pull them, including the bull, be pretty much or destroying the colony to wanna contribute and how much you take, and everyone is very, very secretive about their ramp patches that they know of and don't share them, and the same with mushrooms
0:52:38.0 S2: As a much from a location protection that gets passed on to generations and you will be... Shame on the family. Do you ever share it with anybody? It's one tradition that we're like, Okay, the family will disown you, you share or rushing spot, we don't have that with anything else as we did.
0:52:53.8 S1: But you're more harmony. And it's interesting with Huntress, when I lived in Northern California, we would go up in the hills and forage golden controls, which was a lot of fun, and we had our couple of patches that just a couple of us knew now where they were... I wouldn't share with anyone else, and I just remember one year we brought home... It was a really good year. I brought home pounds and what we made with them was... Oh, I just lost the name. Let's get on to a case 'cause I do love a good key. The first part is Pires.
0:53:30.4 S2: Yes, so super simple process, that's the only a couple of ingredients, just make sure you let your dearest and then pre-picket beforehand so it's not soggy, so...
0:53:40.9 S1: Okay, I have to ask a professional chef this question about pre-baking cross, 'cause I never know when I make roar crust in this recipe that will be in the show notes is what's called a cold water cross. When do your pre-bache? Do you not the you pretty big, and why don't you...
0:54:01.1 S2: You pre-bake because you want all the sides of the DOT be cooked, like if you're making a hat, for example, the tree cooked, but your feeling is most likely not gonna be cooked, so you need to pre-bake that dough because the rest is just gonna be... A cold set inside, this one is a really exercise, so you wanna create that shell on the pieces before you make it, because it's really what recipe otherwise that do will just be much... It'd be like, Okay, you're not feeling it with like a vegetable mixer, you're filling it with a milk and egg like wet mixture, and I absorb it to the dough and break that down before it has time to cook, if you do not pre-bake it.
0:54:39.3 S1: But something like an apple pie, you don't necessarily need to pre-bake.
0:54:43.0 S2: No, because it's not as much what as it is, because even before you cook it, it's got a stick of discoidal theory, you're either pouring over a camera, refresh apples or you're picking the apples beforehand, and what becomes more like a karma and then you put it in... It's not a wet dog, this is straight up like this, this constraint. Yeah, you can train it out of... It depends on the viscosity, I guess, but it simply depends on the viscosity of the thing that you're putting into the pie...
0:55:16.6 S1: Right, right. And this PEEK, you didn't actually say in the recipe, but would you put weight in it when you predict
0:55:23.2 S2: For this one, because it's... I kinda just smash it down and I just stab it with a fork, you can... I don't find it necessary in this recipe...
0:55:32.2 S1: Okay, cool, I'm from our listener. I love using pie weights, but just 'cause they're fun to play with, but for a listener, some people put Pilates in their pies, especially if they're gonna be pre-big, so it doesn't like puff out of its shape, it helps to hold the pie crust shape, but it depends on the style of cross and what you're doing... Yeah.
0:55:51.4 S2: This isn't a puff pastry, it was a popularity that... Yes, if it was a heart shell because you're gonna take it out and then sell it as something that you're on Putin to fridge, I would also suggest that or This one, you pretend then you put it in again, so the way of the ingredients is gonna hold it down more or less.
0:56:09.4 S1: Yeah, I've been working on learning my paros terminology, and so there's a really great cookbook called the Pie Room from the Pie Room in London, and it's really educational, really great, and it goes through all kinds of pies and Bill pies and everything, but it goes through the different kinds of crops first and how to make them and why you use them and all that, which has helped me start to have a better understanding
0:56:35.9 S2: Of peristome fun thing. The one thing that I really enjoy with side is if you actually take a take 10 and you put a baking sheet at the bottom before you close the Kate, you could actually make this quiche without any parish, and you just make it like a take, so it becomes gluten-free and high protein locality.
0:56:56.8 S1: And I often do Crossley listeners across list quiche to... Or I've done a quiche, the really super handling sliced thin potato crust. You prepare big those. So I've done a hitherto.
0:57:14.8 S2: You gotta eat. That's super nice.
0:57:17.0 S1: Yeah, it's kind of nice to... Of all the breakfast in one slide, I'm a big potato fan, so... Alright, we've got... So you do the cross and then let's tell us about our feeling
0:57:30.6 S2: Keating, I make the web stuff separate from the vegetables to say that... So you make your cheese, you shake your cheese and you mix that with your egg and your milk Sapper, and you put it to a side, and then you cropland and chop up your audience and your mushrooms, cook the onions for a few minutes on medium heat until he got off and then I crank up the heat and then I add the mushrooms to really get them into the harmonizing stage, I wanna cook at the water, reduce and really concentrate and Caroline the onions with the mushrooms, and then I tossed the time in at the very end, and then as I'm putting the liquid into the pieces, I just sprinkle those cooperates into like I at the limiters, and then I sprinkle the onions and the massacre into that fixture before I make it in, I don't fold it into the wet stuff 'cause I kinda want to sit and be suspended within the liquid, and then you had to see some on the top, otherwise they fall to the bottom bottom.
0:58:35.7 S1: Yeah, so I think you said something really important for anyone making any kind of keys, it's really important like any feelings, whether it's wild mushrooms and onions or something else, to have a... Be as dry as possible because if it's wet, then you're in giving this weird texture in your knee, you... As a mushroom cooks, if you don't cook out the water first and the water will still reach out, but just get in that little pocket that it's sitting... Yashin me that mistake. It's not lovely. And then the other thing, you know, it's interesting, it's khasi got more into making khas myself, I started to realize that it's more about making a good custard base and less about the cheese, like the cheeses there. And it's good, but I think sometimes some American cases overdo the cheese, and I know like this one, your recipe is only 150 gram, which isn't that much compared to the amount of karaman milk and egg, and it just gives the eye... The cheese in this recipe is a flavor rather than a setter, I think a lot of American ones, they used to chose to set the age rather than using it to add flavour.
0:59:46.4 S1: Right, right. And do you have some special things to say about the cheese for this particular version of a case?
0:59:53.6 S2: Yes, so just thinking about the flavors that we work with, and so we have this cheese sheen called vestibule, it is a land-marked change in how she... Pain can be made in Champagne, and Diane's
1:00:10.7 S1: True, like champagne is like that, or Prosecco was the same thing. Like only Bree is the same way. Put DePalma only birju from Parma, Italy can be called participate, anyone else who calls with that is doing it incorrectly, so pain. Champaign. Yeah, there's a straggling wine or champagne or persecutor Crimea, lot of those things, the regions to preserve the tradition and the history and the name have said Only if it's from this region grown in these certain ways or made in these certain ways, kinda be called this thing and so this cheese is one of those...
1:00:48.8 S2: Yes, and we have this, and it's an amazing cheese, it's an age... I don't wanna say white chatter, but that's I think the best way to put it in English terminology. So that's why I do say an age white chatter in this recipe, because once it's a pungent sharp flavor that complements the wild mushroom, that doesn't overpower it, but it's still a standalone flavor, so we use or fostered, and I always use Festival the most, or pest, but that's like the cheaper, non-landmark version of vestibule then, and it just is a great flavor, if ever in San naver in Sweden, get some vestibule to most and just try it. It's unique, and it's not like this crazy blue cheesy flavor by any means. It was a really good... Geez, that's the best way to Itasca cheese with a unique flavor, and it complements the smasher well, so if you're using other mushrooms, just a Twitter Ads, flavor, the amount is in this recipe is for a flavor additive, not a texture, like you were saying...
1:01:52.3 S1: Right, right, right, right. And so in Kees are such a great thing, I love making them all the really, once you know the basics, you can put any filling in, you can change a cheese, it can change the filling...
1:02:05.4 S2: I do call them a fridge cleaner because that's another way that I like for stability and a salt... Good ways. I use Keisha as a fridge plate and I'm like, Oh, I have have to manhole an Anand half a ball here got some skin and I love that I got some three slices of him... Can't really do much with that. I have left over turkey anything, you just chop it up, fit pre-cook it, add it to this space, and then you have a key and you're also using a little tidbits that are left over sintered, and then you create a whole new dish out of it that everyone can enjoy.
1:02:36.2 S1: Yeah. Perfect, awesome. So I have two last questions. The first one is, what... Is there a woman who inspires motivates you as a heroin to you... Any of the ovulidae.
1:03:01.2 S2: There are so many people around the world that inspired me, not only that, I use as an example earlier who is an Aboriginal in Australia, just how she represents her culture and how to chase to do it and how she's brought it to the forefront in a country that is still trying to silence them, it's like, I'm still gonna take up space, I'm still gonna represent my country, my land, my people and our food, and everyone loves it, and it's just becoming more globalized, and it's just like the way she's gone about it and the amazing recipes. It's amazing, I definitely look up to her... There's this woman, I think she's more tiktok Instagram famous or whatever, but she's called the Black forager and that too... I absolutely love her. I have written to her and I'm like, Can we please hang out... I saw that you're in California, how long you would be here... I know you have so many followers, you probably never see this message, but I have an obsession with her and her page, just because of the amount of sheer knowledge that she has about everything, like What I love her wealth of knowledge about, just land and all that Wilford stuff, of course.
1:04:17.7 S2: But then people like Anthony bordain, definitely one of my heroes, just Chiles around the world, represent, comes into someone's culture to respect their culture and live as part of that, within that short free time is there and just enjoy it rather than going there to take over or make it something that it's not... So he was definitely somebody I've always looked up to as well, and then... Yeah, just... Those are the ones that come to mind. That's alright.
1:04:52.3 S1: This can be the ones that come to me. And then my last question is, our topic is ethics and empathy in food, whether or not in your vegan, and I'm just curious if there's a lag to the last message, something you'd like to leave our listeners most either that we didn't talk about that thoroughly, or that you wanna say something more about... What would you like to leave us with?
1:05:20.9 S2: I guess just final word of, You don't have to be a vegan to eat ethically, and if you are a vegan, just figure out what that actually means on an ethical level, if that's the reason that you're a vegan and... Because if it's just for a love of animals, think about what you're actually consuming when and how much it's affecting animals or including human beings on different parts of the world, if you're choosing just not to see it or to have enough in front of you, or if you're actually choosing to eat ethically, a sustainability, sustainably, and then if you're a meat-eater, just consider where your meat comes from and try to lower your footprint, and not everything needs to come in a bag, I'm time you... Or grocery store, you can carry a lot of things out without being an issue, especially if you just running in for one thing doesn't need to be in a bag
1:06:12.1 S1: And... I'm gonna add a third question... Yeah, before we go, I know that was such a good ending, and you talked about this episode being both about ethics and empathy and food, and I feel like we inferred empathy but didn't blatantly talk about it, so I was curious if you had anything... Wanted to say about Meath-tic eating.
1:06:40.6 S2: That's more on the cultural aspect, like manure in different cultures... If you're in different cultures and they're often or to share their food with you, you have to have empathy and not just show your views, your opinions, your dietary choices on to other people, and then you just gotta sit there and enjoy. But then if you have empathetic eating, that's what I mean by having ethical and empathetic eating as any either think about, Oh, I want avocados in the middle of winter in Scandinavia, that's not eating. And Patil or ethically, because... Or even if it is in season, on the inside of the time that you're not thinking about who's harvesting this stuff, who is being impacted by me wanting to consume this object, like me wanting to have tofu and every single dish, like swipe reduction is so an ethical or it destroys the planet in any different ways, where are you sourcing your ingredients from and who is being affected by the sourcing of these ingredients? There's a lot of countries that still use high amounts of salsa labor in their farming and their farming practices, and they are more in the hotter climates that grow a lot of these food, so can you lower your consumption of bananas, avocados sold products or wherever it comes from...
1:08:03.5 S2: And then that is like a eating with empathy, it is respecting people's culture, not abusing human being from the other side of the planet and claiming its ethical... Just 'cause you can't see it, it's just... If you put a little bit of empathy, I think a little bit further than it becomes more ethical automatically.
1:08:21.9 S1: Yeah, I think there's a saying, Know Your Farmer. Know your food, I think that is an act of empathy because when you see where your food is coming from, how it's treated, how it's read, how it's provided to you, no matter what it is, plant or animal, that brings a certain self-empathy in your choices as well, as empathy for all the people involved in feeding you...
1:08:47.2 S2: Yeah, 'cause there's, like I said, Slave labor or abused, using a low population is a lot of the ways that we get certain foods that are provided year-round that we actually can't have access to otherwise. So if you just don't consume those foods or you just go local, which that local and seasonal, and then it doesn't really become a problem, automatically makes you eating more ethically and that which becomes more sustainable for the planet and then also means that you're eating with empathy for everyone involved in the whole food chain, including the planet and yourself.
1:09:24.7 S1: That is a beautiful note to complete with thank you so much, Charlie Ray, for sharing your stories and your rate and in deep passion and interesting, fascinating, worldwide experience with all of us today to all our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode of women in food and got a bit of inspiration for your next meal. A last request, if you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're using to listen and give us a rating and review. It's a simple act. That helps us a ton. Once again, thank you for accompanying me on this delicious adventure, join me around the table for our next episode and get ready to eat!